Did the US really invade IRAQ for the oil?

[Bartfarst 10]

No I didn't miss that, and that was balanced, but I didn't miss his "Of course, those who think otherwise - wherever they are coming from or going to - are warmly invited to find another forum by me" either - that was fairly unambiguous.

[Pipine 10]

thanks for your comments too anne bizarre though they were.

 

Nothing bizarre there.. merely pointing out this thread will probably devolve into the usual slanging match between the "do-gooder" lefties and the "hard of thinking neofascist wingnut minority" and probably get closed at some point.

 

Then my views on Iraq which I'd hardly class as bizarre. Quite normal really.

 

(the bit about Iran was a bit of an afterthought I'll grant you)

[firecracker 10]

Well all that says is you are willing to demonstrate in public that you are a complete idiot with little more knowledge than a psychotic shrew.

And we're waiting for proof that you have any functioning brain cells.

[canugetagrip 10]

So bartfarst you want to either keep my opinions to myself and zip it or clear off to another forum? , i already contribute on the http://www.tripadvisorforum.com and switch alot from this to that, i have been on there alot longer than here and they are a great bunch of people at the moment, it hasn't always been good on there like alot of places.

 

The real issue here is that if you are new to a forum people don't usually fall over backwards to make you feel welcome, this is not unique to sf it happens everywhere, a natural suspicion of someone from the outside quite prevalent in york where i used to live.

[canugetagrip 10]

welcome to the school of airheads anne ,life sure is a box of chocolates, you never know what your'e gonna get.

[firecracker 10]

"Thanks to Blair, Bush and a few others, there's 50,000 terrorists "

 

It is amazing that you thank some one for killing people! What does terrorism mean in your definition?

 

Does it mean invading other people’s country?

Does it mean killing their children and elderly?

Does it mean putting them in chaos so that hundreds are been killed EVERY DAY?

 

You claim that Muslims hate the west and this has been for decades! Let’s say that your claim is right, have you asked your self why?

 

Do Chinese hate the west?

Do Japanese hate the west?

Do Africans hate the west?

 

If they do then there is a problem at your home needs to be fixed. BUT if say Chinese do not hate the west then you have a problem in understanding how the world is split. Do you know that there are Muslims in China more than Muslims in Saudi Arabia!

I'll tell you why Muslims hate the West. It is because we don't want to live under Sharia law, meaning that we don't want our women to cover up with burkas, make them walk 10 yards behind us, nor do we want our pubs and bars closing down, or have our women stoned to death for adultery. And we know what Ayatollah Khomeini said:

 

“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us? Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy? Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”

[Pipine 10]

welcome to the school of airheads anne ,life sure is a box of chocolates, you never know what your'e gonna get.

 

If you would please just elaborate, exactly what do you think is bizarre about my post....

[canugetagrip 10]

It's bizarre in the way that you are already talking about the impending invasion of iran before this one has been solved, it will take a huge effort and massive budget to do this, i don't think it is going to happen just yet and also there is a real worry that it could cause a huge uprising of militance towards the west as we know the us are hated by most iranians even though i am told there are alot living in california over 250,000 at the last count.

 

It's also bizarre that you expect this thread to be closed as we all know the mods will side with far left social ideals as has already been stated.

[Bartfarst 10]

Nothing bizarre there.. merely pointing out this thread will probably devolve into the usual slanging match between the "do-gooder" lefties and the "hard of thinking neofascist wingnut minority" and probably get closed at some point.

 

Then my views on Iraq which I'd hardly class as bizarre. Quite normal really.

 

(the bit about Iran was a bit of an afterthought I'll grant you)

 

Anne, sorry if I helped take it that way - I'll not rise any further to P's taunts - and I don't think your comments were bizarre.

 

Iraq may be the biggest peace and stability issue at the moment, but it's far from unique. If you look across the globe at the various UN peace operations that have been started over the last 30 years, it's hard to find cases that have been successful enough for the stabilisation forces to pull out.

 

Why? We have a democratic system in the West which works a treat for us, but that's because it's based on a set of morals and values which are, in turn, developed from Christian beliefs and have been honed into our form of governance over a couple of thousand years, and have only even approached democracy in the last few hundred.

 

We then go into messed-up, war-torn nations that have usually been based on tribal and feudal systems, and expect to be able to throw a democratic template onto the chaos and see stability appear in a puff of smoke. It just won’t happen. At the very least, it takes 2 or 3 generations for new governance ideas to be accepted and applied sincerely, because the motivational value systems of the individuals in these third world countries are radically different to ours.

 

Most of the ‘success stories’ of stabilisation are woefully corrupt because the democratic front just hides the old system, and they tend to fall apart a decade or two after they’ve been left to their own devices. Regrettably Iraq, Afghanistan, Angola, Burundi, Congo, East Timor, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Yugoslavia, Haiti, India and Pakistan, Iran, Palestine, Ivory coast, Kosovo, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, North Korea, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Sudan, Syria, Uganda, Western Sahara, Cyprus, et al are going to suck in western peace keeping resources for decades. And there will be plenty more!

[Pipine 10]

It's bizarre in the way that you are already talking about the impending invasion of iran before this one has been solved, it will take a huge effort and massive budget to do this, i don't think it is going to happen just yet and also there is a real worry that it could cause a huge uprising of militance towards the west as we know the us are hated by most iranians even though i am told there are alot living in california over 250,000 at the last count.

 

It's also bizarre that you expect this thread to be closed as we all know the mods will side with far left social ideals as has already been stated.

 

I don't think Iraq is going to be solved anytime soon. But I don't think this will stop the US from dabbling in Iran if it sees fit to do so. Money and resources will be found from somewhere. Maybe they'll offset the cost of invading Iran against the contracts that US firms will be offered for rebuilding the country after they've destroyed it?

[Bartfarst 10]

So bartfarst you want to either keep my opinions to myself and zip it or clear off to another forum? , i already contribute on the http://www.tripadvisorforum.com and switch alot from this to that, i have been on there alot longer than here and they are a great bunch of people at the moment, it hasn't always been good on there like alot of places.

 

The real issue here is that if you are new to a forum people don't usually fall over backwards to make you feel welcome, this is not unique to sf it happens everywhere, a natural suspicion of someone from the outside quite prevalent in york where i used to live.

 

No, you misinterpret, that's exactly what I wasn't saying!! I wasn't directing that commenn at you, I was quoting Planerothyme, who seemed to invite me to leave the Forum because my views disagree with his. He has a problem that I agree with things like UK laws on drug abuse, and chose to go personal on the thread.

 

I'm not a lefty, you see (well, actually I’m way, way right there from Attila the Hun, but it's all relative!!)

[Bartfarst 10]

I don't think Iraq is going to be solved anytime soon. But I don't think this will stop the US from dabbling in Iran if it sees fit to do so. Money and resources will be found from somewhere. Maybe they'll offset the cost of invading Iran against the contracts that US firms will be offered for rebuilding the country after they've destroyed it?

 

We won't see a land campaign but don't be surprised if the odd Iranian nuclear facility becomes host to a few visiting Tomahawks before 2008. Might see what Ladbrokes will give me on that . . . .