Private Parking Ticket Megathread (Part 2)

[peak4 279]

Your own figures show that less than 1% of these tickets issued end in court action. With millions of tickets issued per year they cannot all be pursued in the civil courts.

 

So how are those less than 1% of cases chosen? They are all cases where the person who has been issued with a ticket engages at some level with the company which issued them.

 

Cite me just one case where someone who has put the parking invoice straight into the bin has ended up being pursued through the courts.

 

Firstly, they're not my figures, they are BMPA's

 

As regards the 1% or even 0% for some PPCs, that's why I mentioned "playing the odds"

These figures obviously don't take into account anyone who caved in at the "Letter Before Claim" notification from the PPC, where they were planning on continuing through with court action.

 

No idea how the cases are chosen, but anecdotally they are more likely to pursue a claim, to County Court, which is completely ignored, as they think that the court papers are likely to be ignored as well, thus leading to a default judgement in favour of the claimant, and thus a CCJ if that's ignored as well.

Some companies are known to lodge the court claim, but drop it if a robust defence is offered.

 

Just have a look on Pepipoo, and type ccj into the search box.

 

Many of the threads involve people to either deliberately ignored, or moved house, thus allowing the PPC to send everything to a previous address. Effectively the same thing in that they received no response.

The above link will take you to one such thread.

 

If Pepipoo doesn't float your boat, try MSE for a similar thread

 

If you have a Facebook account, scroll through a few of THESE, many of which are ignores or house-moves. Not recommending the group admin's services, just pointing to it as a list of cases

 

Read up on POFA which allows the PPC to issue a claim against the reg keeper, rather than the driver.

 

So once again, I'll say, "don't just blindly ignore everything."

 

p.s. Popla only consider legal arguments, not mitigation, and their judgement is only binding on the PPC not the keeper/driver. (also only applicable to BPA affiliated companies)

IPC have their own kangaroo court who are rumoured to reject a minimum of 80% of appeals.

Edited March 1, 2018 by peak4

[Top Cats Hat 10]

No idea how the cases are chosen, but anecdotally they are more likely to pursue a claim, to County Court, which is completely ignored, as they think that the court papers are likely to be ignored as well, thus leading to a default judgement in favour of the claimant,

 

I actually know someone who used to pursue cases for a debt collection agency and would only pursue cases when they had some contact/acknowledgment from the debtor. Those who made no attempt to contact them were put onto an automated system where a standard letter was sent out after six months and then again after a further year.

 

This is borne out by the fact that almost everyone I know who has binned the communications from the parking companies have received at most two further threatening letters and then nothing and yes, this is post 2012.

[peak4 279]

I actually know someone who used to pursue cases for a debt collection agency and would only pursue cases when they had some contact/acknowledgment from the debtor. Those who made no attempt to contact them were put onto an automated system where a standard letter was sent out after six months and then again after a further year.

 

This is borne out by the fact that almost everyone I know who has binned the communications from the parking companies have received at most two further threatening letters and then nothing and yes, this is post 2012.

 

But surely the Debt Collection Agency (DCA) would be involved (just writing scary red letters) before any formal court case, and take a cut of any monies stumped up by the "Alleged Offender".

That's probably why they put more effort into chasing folks who have acknowledged the speculative invoice (not fine), as they think they are more likely to cave in and come up with the cash.

 

The DCA (zzps, DRP, Zenith et al. largely toothless companies) couldn't pursue the case to court as that would have to be the principal. i.e. the PPC itself, via their solicitors.

 

That's why they keep trying for a while, so that they get their cut;

N.B. since the PPC has up to 6 years to pursue an alleged civil debt in court, there may be future grief to follow, long after the DCA has given up.

 

The point is, that those who have ignored completely, may be more likely to be taken to court by the principal - the PPC, even though it may only be a small % of cases overall.

 

I've no idea what % of folk actually pay up, either initially, or after the various threat-o-grams from the DCAs before court papers are ever issued.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

The point is, that those who have ignored completely, may be more likely to be taken to court by the principal - the PPC

 

I still have seen no evidence for this.

 

You seem to be predicating your argument on the fact that a judgement would automatically be made if a civil court action went unopposed. You can't spend CCJs, but it does cost you money to obtain them. I don't know what the exact costs are but I do know that those dodgy legal firms who make spurious claims usually against local authorities, rely on the fact that it costs a council a multiple of £00s to defend an action. Below a certain value, they will pay out a claim rather than fight it because even a successful defence does not guarantee that court costs will be awarded.

 

Spending good money obtaining CCJs against people who have already demonstrated a reluctance to cough up makes no sense at all, especially when you have thousands of other cases to choose from.

 

I know this is just one story of many but an ex of mine had a cousin who because of mental health issues could no longer deal with the real world. Her car was registered at their grandmothers address and when she died we found hundreds of unopened letters to do with that vehicle including over 70 parking invoices from the same firm for the same car park. As her sister was planning to move into this house she was worried about any implications for the credit history at that address.

 

So we went through ALL this correspondence looking for any summonses or other court papers. There was nothing other than computer generated 'reminders'. Yes that is just one example but if there was a case that the parking firm would be interested in pursuing, it would be this as the total outstanding amount was in the £1000s.

 

No guarantee about anything I know, but I still maintain that the odds against being pursued in the court if a parking invoice is completely ignored, are high and likely to remain high while the cost of obtain a CCJ exceeds the original amount.

[peak4 279]

Are people still discussing this?

 

 

Any other private parking ticket, bin it and you won't hear from them again. If you do, put it in the bin again. Do not respond to them because by doing that you are acknowledging their right to issue the ticket and they will chase you for it.

 

 

You seem to be predicating your argument on the fact that a judgement would automatically be made if a civil court action went unopposed. You can't spend CCJs, but it does cost you money to obtain them. I don't know what the exact costs are but I do know that those dodgy legal firms who make spurious claims usually against local authorities, rely on the fact that it costs a council a multiple of £00s to defend an action. Below a certain value, they will pay out a claim rather than fight it because even a successful defence does not guarantee that court costs will be awarded.

 

"You seem to be predicating your argument on the fact that a judgement would automatically be made if a civil court action went unopposed."

 

I believe it is, that's how they work. The person who had the claim against them may well have to shell out about £250+ when they find they can't get credit/mortgage/mobile contract etc because of an unpaid CCJ.

I may be wrong but I think it costs about £25 to lodge the claim, so a reasonable return on those who pay up, but more importantly it allows the PPC to show that they "mean business".

 

 

I don't know what the exact costs are but I do know that those dodgy legal firms who make spurious claims usually against local authorities, rely on the fact that it costs a council a multiple of £00s to defend an action. Below a certain value, they will pay out a claim rather than fight it because even a successful defence does not guarantee that court costs will be awarded.

Precisely, in the case of a PPC, it doesn't cost much to lodge the claim, against the chance of a reasonable return. An undefended case will ensure finding in favour of the PPC.

In your case above, the council are the ones defending, which will cost them a fortune, so they may well settle out of court as the cheaper option.

It's a bit like spurious whiplash claims against insurers, where companies used to pay out as it was cheaper than defending.

 

The main point I'm making however is that I've attempted to provide MrAudi (and others) with enough information to make an informed judgement on their next course of action, rather than just blindly stating

"Any other private parking ticket, bin it and you won't hear from them again. If you do, put it in the bin again. Do not respond to them because by doing that you are acknowledging their right to issue the ticket and they will chase you for it" and treating it as fact, when demonstrably it is flawed if you follow my earlier links.

Yes, the odds may be considerably in favour of the alleged offender, but to state something as fact, when in reality it's a (flawed since 2012) opinion, has led many people down the route to a CCJ.

Edited March 2, 2018 by peak4

[hophopjumpin 10]

Can anyone offer any advice please? I used a claims company via kirkbylad nearly 4 1/2 years ago with regard to a parking ticket, this week a county court judgement against the claimant has been issued in default. This is the first that had been heard of in 4 years but the company no longer exists and I have no proof I thought it had been dealt with?

 

Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

[zoco 10]

Can anyone offer any advice please? I used a claims company via kirkbylad nearly 4 1/2 years ago with regard to a parking ticket, this week a county court judgement against the claimant has been issued in default. This is the first that had been heard of in 4 years but the company no longer exists and I have no proof I thought it had been dealt with?

 

Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

 

Go over to one of the sites such as pepipoo.com or Money saving expert private parking forum rather than use this forum. There is some good advice here but there are too many 'tap room experts' as well, that are offering out-dated advice or simply just their opinion.

 

With something like this opinions have no place and can lead to people being mis-advised and it ultimately costing them money.

 

It is important that if you do post on a forum to never reveal the identity of the driver because forums are monitored by parking companies and they have produced posts on occasions in court.

 

As far as Sheffield Forum is concerned, I think that this thread should be closed and a sticky put in place directing people who want to ask about private parking to more suitable sites such as the two I've mentioned, the BMPA and others.

Edited March 2, 2018 by zoco

[peak4 279]

Go over to one of the sites such as pepipoo.com or Money saving expert private parking forum rather than use this forum. There is some good advice here but there are too many 'tap room experts' as well, that are offering out-dated advice or simply just their opinion.

 

With something like this opinions have no place and can lead to people being mis-advised and it ultimately costing them money.

 

It is important that if you do post on a forum to never reveal the identity of the driver because forums are monitored by parking companies and they have produced posts on occasions in court.

 

As far as Sheffield Forum is concerned, I think that this thread should be closed and a sticky put in place directing people who want to ask about private parking to more suitable sites such as the two I've mentioned, the BMPA and others.

 

Completely agree with all of the above.

The only reason I've been posting on this thread at all, is to try and stop folks dropping themselves even further in the mire.

 

As regards the CCJ mentioned earlier, Parking Prankster has some useful comments, though they need updating following the Beavis Supreme Court case. I'm surprised he's not done so, as he's normally reasonably on the ball.

The link will however give someone a feeling for what it's all about.

 

Kirkbylad, (aka kirkbyinfurnesslad, and various other aliases) did seem to offer useful advice to start with, and even some successful defences, but in the end it's been alleged that he took the money and ran.

Offering a defence that someone else has been paid to deal with the problem on one's behalf, may not be well advised.

 

I can understand forum mods not wanting to open themselves up to any possible liability; i.e. by recommending other avenues themselves, so I guess a suitable disclaimer would be needed.

We must remember that "Parking Ticket Appeals" was once viewed by some as fully legitimate.

Edited March 2, 2018 by peak4

[geared 315]

Thanks guys, so if it goes to court, then yeah ofcourse ill pay. But what id like to know is what extra charges i could incur if it goes to court? anyone know roughly how much?

 

They just take you to court for the original amount on the ticket.

[zoco 10]

They just take you to court for the original amount on the ticket.

 

No, they will take this amount, then add initial legal expenses around £54 then court fee £25, interest @ 8% p.a (amount varies) and £50 solicitors cost at court, so you're talking around £250 or thereabouts for an original £100 charge.

 

Thanks guys, so if it goes to court, then yeah ofcourse ill pay. But what id like to know is what extra charges i could incur if it goes to court? anyone know roughly how much?

 

Thanks

 

See above re: charges. Edit your original post regarding the identity of the driver but I suspect that in appealing the ticket that you have already identified the driver to the PCP.

 

Then get onto one of the sites I have previously mentioned and start a thread there to get some correct advice as to how you can challenge this further.

Edited March 2, 2018 by zoco

[SnailyBoy 10]

No, they will take this amount, then add initial legal expenses around £54 then court fee £25, interest @ 8% p.a (amount varies) and £50 solicitors cost at court, so you're talking around £250 or thereabouts for an original £100 charge.

 

No, that's incorrect.

 

The fees are fixed and only the court fee can be claimed, not solicitor fees.

 

Solicitor fees may be awarded if a successful claim is over £10000.

[zoco 10]

No, that's incorrect.

 

The fees are fixed and only the court fee can be claimed, not solicitor fees.

 

Solicitor fees may be awarded if a successful claim is over £10000.

 

I'm defending one at the moment.

 

Geared said that they will only take you to court for the original amount. The figures I quoted are from the claim I'm dealing with, way in excess of the original £100.

 

Of course I am disputing all of it but they will try to inflate any claim that goes along the court route.