Fixed penalty notice for term time holidays

[kidley 48]

i dont know the answer to this but, what i do know is the school children get long holidays,they are not tide down to two weeks or so, Is it the tour companies that put the prices up or the hotels on resort, the reason i am asking is if its the tour companies that puts the prices up why cant the parents arrange all the holiday booking themselves, ok you wont have a rep, you will have to stand on your own two feet [as the saying goes] but may work out a lot cheaper?

[aliceBB 10]

It's probably a bit of both (travel companies and hotels in resorts). It's called capitalism/market forces. They are both out to make as much profit as they can.

 

Notwithstanding, any parent who takes a long view will realise that the long-term cost (to themselves and their child/ren) of taking a cheap holiday in termtime by far exceeds the apparent short-term gain, and will do the right thing.

[lily may 10]

Parents should not expect their children to lie to teachers, what kind of an example is that setting them. Prices for holidays have always been higher at peak times and the majority of parents accept this and act responsibly even though it's frustrating. Like many parents we holiday to suit our pockets. We have had some fabulous holidays camping in France. If you stay away from the most expensive sites it's a very affordable holiday. I want my kids to know life isn't always fair and sometimes sacrifices have to be made. That's life.

[Bonzo77 13]

Sorry, but the bottom line here, in my opinion, is that kids can learn far more from travelling with their family than they ever could in a classroom. Education is vital, don't get me wrong, but a week off here and there is going to do nothing to harm them in the long term. Mare flexibility is required, not less.

[Cyclone 10]

Oops. Apologies! You're right, I didn't teach maths. (Just as well).

 

How do you know that, exactly? Or are you guessing?

Research and media reports.

[yellowperil 10]

It's probably a bit of both (travel companies and hotels in resorts). It's called capitalism/market forces. They are both out to make as much profit as they can.

 

Notwithstanding, any parent who takes a long view will realise that the long-term cost (to themselves and their child/ren) of taking a cheap holiday in termtime by far exceeds the apparent short-term gain, and will do the right thing.

 

Do you think that applies to kids in nursery or primary school too? The long term damage i mean. I disagree as per my previous post.

Im afraid you dont seem to be able to be openminded about this, rational or see common sense. Is there any point interacting with you on the issue?

[Cyclone 10]

I think you're genuinely being obtuse.

The key issue to this debate is removing "children" from school for a family holiday - not responsibility or income.

That's correct.

And your children are adults and do not attend school.

So who's being obtuse?

I cannot book a family holiday outside school holidays and take my family with me -Is this right or wrong? Should i be entitled to the same "rights" that other parents want.

If you had dependent children then you could argue for those rights, yes.

But we are talking about children, not offspring (to differentiate between children who are still children and children who are adults).

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2014 at 12:04 ----------

 

Given that I think the fine should be raised to the point of complete unaffordability in any case,

 

At the risk of invoking Goddards law, you're like some kind of educational fascist.

 

You'd financially cripple a family, creating hardship for them (including the child) rather than allow them to take a child out of school for a week, a week that for most children (excepting GCSE and A-level) at the end of the summer term, is spent messing about and cleaning up.

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2014 at 12:05 ----------

 

I think the people who are advocating taking there kids out of school on a regular basis saying, i will save a lot more than the fine, one thing i havnt read on this thread is, you will only get away with it for so long then, you will be taken to court with possible imprisonment.

 

Regular basis? Is anyone advocating that?

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2014 at 12:09 ----------

 

The problem is that this kind of parent lives in the here and now : 'I want something, therefore I must have it and have it now' - and they do not think ahead to, or care about, the consequences of their actions.

That's falacious. Quite clearly.

 

This 'kind' of parent is posting on this thread, and they clearly do care about the consequences, have thought about them, and like adults have made a decision.

You wish to take that authority away from them, big brother knows best, do as you are told.

 

You're blinkered and refuse to consider any opinion except your own rather extreme one.

[aliceBB 10]

Research and media reports.

 

Oh. Right.

 

Are we allowed to see it, then? Or it is stuff that only the great Cyclone would understand?

[willman 10]

That's correct.

And your children are adults and do not attend school.

So who's being obtuse?

If you had dependent children then you could argue for those rights, yes.

But we are talking about children, not offspring (to differentiate between children who are still children and children who are adults).

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2014 at 12:04 ----------

 

 

At the risk of invoking Goddards law, you're like some kind of educational fascist.

 

You'd financially cripple a family, creating hardship for them (including the child) rather than allow them to take a child out of school for a week, a week that for most children (excepting GCSE and A-level) at the end of the summer term, is spent messing about and cleaning up.

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2014 at 12:05 ----------

 

 

Regular basis? Is anyone advocating that?

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2014 at 12:09 ----------

 

That's falacious. Quite clearly.

 

This 'kind' of parent is posting on this thread, and they clearly do care about the consequences, have thought about them, and like adults have made a decision.

You wish to take that authority away from them, big brother knows best, do as you are told.

 

You're blinkered and refuse to consider any opinion except your own rather extreme one.

 

No we weren't we were debating being allowed to take a family holiday in term time.

I asked the question why i should be treated differently.

 

I am unable to have a family holiday during term time.

Even worse my children will never be able to take their children on a cheap term time holiday?

So why should that be right? If its okay for one set of parent sit should be okay for all of them. Shouldn't it?

 

So two teachers at one school,in the same department,taking two weeks holiday at the same time with their child. That'll be wonderful for the head teacher to resolve.

 

Wouldn't that one week at the end of term just become an additional high priced holiday week? One where everyone wants it but only so many employees can actually get it.

Edited August 10, 2014 by willman

[kidley 48]

Originally Posted by kidley

I think the people who are advocating taking there kids out of school on a regular basis saying, i will save a lot more than the fine, one thing i havnt read on this thread is, you will only get away with it for so long then, you will be taken to court with possible imprisonment.

 

Originally Posted by Cyclone

 

Regular basis? Is anyone advocating that?

 

kidley

 

parents are wanting to take kids on holiday in term time i dont read this to be a one of, if it was just that, i dont think there would be much of a problem, headteachers did have authority to grant that.

[aliceBB 10]

You'd financially cripple a family, creating hardship for them (including the child) rather than allow them to take a child out of school for a week, a week that for most children (excepting GCSE and A-level) at the end of the summer term, is spent messing about and cleaning up

And you know that because...? How long is it since you spent the entire last week of term in a school? Things have changed in schools since the 70s, believe me. Besides which, we are not just talking about the last week of the summer term. Parents choose to remove their kids throughout that term, and also in September, October and May - all through the school year, in fact. I have no wish to 'cripple' anyone financially - and it would not be necessary in any case, if people abided by the law. Having a half-affordable fine is a stupid principle in any case. It is insufficient deterrent to parents who cynically carry on against all advice and offset the fine against the savings on the holiday. Logically, for a fine to be a dterrent, it needs to bite.

 

This 'kind' of parent is posting on this thread, and they clearly do care about the consequences, have thought about them, and like adults have made a decision.

You wish to take that authority away from them, big brother knows best, do as you are told.

 

You're blinkered and refuse to consider any opinion except your own rather extreme one

On the contrary; I have considered the whole range of opinions expressed on this thread, quite carefully. However, none of the people expressing them has yet convinced me that there is a valid case for taking most children out in school term-time, for a holiday. If you, or Bonzo, or yellowperil or anyone else disagrees with me, fine. They are welcome to their views. I've modified my view on one aspect of this (in the case where parents in some occupations , e.g police, have no say in when their own holidays are taken), but essentially all I've been trying to do is point out some consequences which some people may not have thought about. Plant a few seeds, if you will. I doubt I've changed anyone's mind, but then that's not really what happens on forums, is it? Few people change their fundamental viewpoint or their behaviour as a result of anything anyone writes on this forum. Forums are sounding boards Your comments about blinkeredness could apply equally to most posters, especially yourself. I have yet to come across a thread where your opinion (on anything) has been changed by anything anyone else says! So, pots, kettles etc. As I've observed before, you come across as arrogant and hectoring - but it's a forum. It's more about you than me. Edited August 10, 2014 by aliceBB

[lily may 10]

In senior school and at that stage of education i can see the point.

To set back your childs education is shortsighted in that circumstance.

This applies to nursery and primary school too though which is ridiculous.

The point of school at the nursery stage is to get you used to learning and interacting in a certain way, the same applies to primary school to a degree, the last week before the holidays the kids are usually watching films or drawing so they wont really be missing much education wise.

This is my bug bear, the rule is black and white and has no provision for common sense, common sense saves time and money in most cases of red tape and legislation.

 

You cant underestimate what children get from a good family holiday in this, interacting with others,getting a more worldly wise view of life etc.

All as important to a childs development as what they would be doing in nursery or primary school.

Common sense needs to prevail, none of the rules surrounding the fines takes any of that into account or encourages a family life, including the silly fine being per parent! Which was my original point. Its unfair.

Its also unfair that a family misses a holiday because they cant afford it after working hard all year. They all have to suffer because the computer says no!

 

Don't you think having an attitude that we can do whatever we like regardless of rules is not really setting children a good idea. Families can have holidays and bonding time in the school holidays it doesn't have to be 2 weeks in the med which is IMO ishardly educational anyway. Be imaginative. The kids will be happy to just have your attention they don't need expensive hols to enjoy themselves.