Strike action Living Wage

[JR hartley 10]

Was there a point to your misspelt, poorly punctuated, grammatically erroneous post?

 

one that you clearly missed:o

[Squiggs 11]

So sometimes unionised workplaces win better rights than those of us who aren't unionised? Don't slag them off for it - get organised yourself!

 

Unions, though imperfect, have won many/most of the things we all take for granted today. So working people - be careful before you knock unions for pushing just because they seem better off than you anyway.

[SpikeMac 10]

People don't seem to understand that if everyone was paid a 'living wage' then inflation would go through the roof. Living wage would soon be seen as too little and would be the new term for minimum wage.

 

If employers don't pay a living wage, then it gets left to the taxpayer to make up the shortfall. So good employers end up subsidising bad ones.

 

That can't be right.

[Flying Duck 10]

There's been emails going out for the last couple of weeks about it and asking people to go on the picket line (assuming you are at Hallam).

 

Unison are definitely on strike today.

 

AFAIK, unison were only on strike within HE. FE and all other local government weren't part of the ballot.

[tzijlstra 11]

It depends where - at the University of Sheffield a lecturer starts on ~42k I believe. So the salaries at different universities and FE establishments differ for jobs that have the same name of lecturer.

 

Don't know where you got that from, but that figure is closer to what senior lecturers earn.

 

To some of the others and the OP:

 

I don't think striking solves anything, but the stuff some folk here come out with is beyond laughable.

 

A good lecturer on a full time contract, reaching both the teaching and research targets tends to work at least ten hours a day on average! Including evenings and weekends. It is difficult, taxing work, being carried out by bright people who generally would be earning a hell of a lot more in the private sector.

 

Reducing the attraction of these jobs through pay freezes for over four years now is driving good people out, it reduces the quality of our FE/HE system despite this being an essential pillar in a global knowledge race. I can think of five colleagues who have left the UK to get paid twice as much for the same work in the US and Australia, who do you think loses out more?

 

Think of bigger pictures when you post your opinion on a forum, or don't post at all.

[biotechpete 10]

This doesn't match up with the jobs and pay scales I see in the back of the New Scientist. Research positions are usually around £30-40k but lecturer or senior lecturer posts are always advertised around £40-50K.

 

I can't comment on the wages of support staff as I have no knowledge of their pay scales.

 

Yes, these few advertised permanent positions are the ones which everyone wants, but they are not the reality for the majority of researchers. Indeed, where a PhD once got a research salary of just under £30k, many of these people are now trying for jobs a grade or two below on under £25k as technicians or assistants. The official grade of 'lecturer' starts at about £35k but teaching only staff who lecture are not necessarily on this grade. Universities are putting lots of downward pressure on salaries in subtle ways. For example many universities are adopting the American model where researchers even as Profs aren't offered permanent contracts, the university pays them nothing and they have to be self-sustaining by bringing in funding for even their own wage. This leads to an ultra-competitive career structure, very long hours and very low job security (most awarding bodies will fund only 10-15% of the grant applications they receive). The number of fixed term contract staff at universities have almost reached 50%. So as one of these research lecturers you may still not have a permanent contract and be expected to take on a teaching workload, manage a team of 10-20 staff & students, do all the administration, finance, project management, grant writing, publications etc yourself. Oh and at some universities it is now becoming a prerequisite for a permanent position to run your own spin-out company too.

 

As for pay scales I can tell you that the scale goes from about 14-60k/yr over 8 grades and the steps get wider at the top. It's the same for almost all UK universities as the salaries (within certain boundaries) are negotiated nationally.

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2013 at 09:41 ----------

 

It depends where - at the University of Sheffield a lecturer starts on ~42k I believe. So the salaries at different universities and FE establishments differ for jobs that have the same name of lecturer.

 

No, the lecturer scale starts at about £35k, but many people who lecture don't earn that.

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2013 at 09:42 ----------

 

Actually you can see the Sheffield Uni pay scales here:

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.329094!/file/aug13_salaries.pdf

 

Grade 8 is a lecturer grade so 37.7k. as of next year when they back date the pay rise to the level quoted there.

[Mr Bloom 10]

Still cant see the point of holding the universitys to ransome. Theres not enough money as it is.

 

:hihi: Are you talking about Sheffield University? I don't think so.

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2013 at 10:04 ----------

 

I am Sure everyone would

Like to Be paid what they THINK they are worth but meanwhile in the real world!!!! Lecturers my good lord what a taxing position!!!! Try being an Amazon shelf picker !!!!! Then you might understand hard work !

 

So you work on the principle that while ever there is someone who has a tougher deal than you, then you should just put up or shut up?

[nightrider 13]

No, the lecturer scale starts at about £35k, but many people who lecture don't earn that.

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2013 at 09:42 ----------

 

Actually you can see the Sheffield Uni pay scales here:

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.329094!/file/aug13_salaries.pdf

 

Grade 8 is a lecturer grade so 37.7k. as of next year when they back date the pay rise to the level quoted there.

 

That might be, but lecturers don't necessarily start at the bottom of grade 8. Last time I applied for a lecturer level job (it was actually an external research fellowship which I didn't get in the end, which has the possibility to eventually become a permanent lecture job, not sure if unis offer a higher salary in this case then?) at a russel group uni the salary on offer was mid way up at 42k.

 

Anyway really my point was a University of Sheffield lecturer probably earns more than a FE lecturer, and some people were I think suggesting lecturers earn a lot less than 35k. Hence my point lecturer means different things in different organisations.

[woodmally 10]

Devil's Advocate

 

Those complaining that lecturers get a good wage should perhaps have worked harder at school then they too might be on a better wage...instead of being a cleaner?

 

Just saying.

 

I did work hard at school and my job is ok pay. The reason I mention cleaners is that it seems that lecturers are saying poor me poor me on £12.00 per hour yet cleaners are only just on minimum wage (both are worthwile jobs). Yet cleaners do more work than lecturers.

 

Also good point about inflation if we did pay everyone the living wage inflation would slightly rise but before then this country would be bankrupt. Those who argue for a living wage need to find where the money is going to come from before they strike.

[GLASGOWOODS 10]

Actually some university lecturers are paid below the living wage when you take into account the work loads and the hours required. Plus, more and more they are paid as free lancers on a per lecture basis. The below inflation pay increases mean that lecturers have taken a real terms pay cut of something like 13% in the last four years.

 

At my uni purely teaching focused lecturers, which is the job you seem to think is so cushy, earn as little as £13/hr on paper, which although isn't a low wage it's not great when you consider the qualifications required. When you also consider that the massive competition for permanent positions, many junior teaching and non-teaching staff work nearly double their contracted hours, you start to think shelf stacking in Tesco might not be such a bad idea.

 

This gives a much better picture of what an academic career is really like:

http://alexandreafonso.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/how-academia-resembles-a-drug-gang/

 

Freak economics..Read it last month.

[MissChatter 10]

I feel we should fight for a livable wage, 6.32 or whatever is not livable at all.

[GLASGOWOODS 10]

Yes, these few advertised permanent positions are the ones which everyone wants, but they are not the reality for the majority of researchers. Indeed, where a PhD once got a research salary of just under £30k, many of these people are now trying for jobs a grade or two below on under £25k as technicians or assistants. The official grade of 'lecturer' starts at about £35k but teaching only staff who lecture are not necessarily on this grade. Universities are putting lots of downward pressure on salaries in subtle ways. For example many universities are adopting the American model where researchers even as Profs aren't offered permanent contracts, the university pays them nothing and they have to be self-sustaining by bringing in funding for even their own wage. This leads to an ultra-competitive career structure, very long hours and very low job security (most awarding bodies will fund only 10-15% of the grant applications they receive). The number of fixed term contract staff at universities have almost reached 50%. So as one of these research lecturers you may still not have a permanent contract and be expected to take on a teaching workload, manage a team of 10-20 staff & students, do all the administration, finance, project management, grant writing, publications etc yourself. Oh and at some universities it is now becoming a prerequisite for a permanent position to run your own spin-out company too.

 

As for pay scales I can tell you that the scale goes from about 14-60k/yr over 8 grades and the steps get wider at the top. It's the same for almost all UK universities as the salaries (within certain boundaries) are negotiated nationally.

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2013 at 09:41 ----------

 

 

No, the lecturer scale starts at about £35k, but many people who lecture don't earn that.

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2013 at 09:42 ----------

 

Actually you can see the Sheffield Uni pay scales here:

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.329094!/file/aug13_salaries.pdf

 

Grade 8 is a lecturer grade so 37.7k. as of next year when they back date the pay rise to the level quoted there.

 

 

My ex is a lecturer with 20 odd years experience in business. Her salary (2011) was around £40-40K per annum.

 

I also know the "powers that be" gave her the choice. More work, or they would bring in a raw PHD young man to do her job and pay him £25k per annum.

 

Should add.. She was negotiating for a permanent contract at the time.

Edited December 4, 2013 by GLASGOWOODS