The New Moor Market

[999tigger 10]

if you do how can you say there is no drunk/thieves/druggies? somehow i dont belive you and you are going on the ignore list for being such a bad lier

 

So which cake shop, there are at least 2 left.

 

Compared to the old market, then druggies I dont see.

Do i see people obviously drunk? No.

Thieves is difficult to know but you obviously can spot them with your special senses. There are fewer of the less desirable types in the new market than used to hand around at the old.

 

As I said I go through the market several times a week.

Oh look other posters are saying the same that they dont see what you allege.

Lol@ you calling me a liar.

Edited August 13, 2014 by 999tigger

[Bilge 34]

I love net curtains and crappy greeting cards I can not get enough of them

 

We should build a new 'fancy goods' market for all that sort of stuff, close to Sheffield's historic trading area. Net curtains have been peddled there for 1000 years I believe. It could be named after you cuttsie, as a lasting monument to 'proper Sheffielders'.

[cuttsie 1,089]

We should build a new 'fancy goods' market for all that sort of stuff, close to Sheffield's historic trading area. Net curtains have been peddled there for 1000 years I believe. It could be named after you , as a lasting monument to 'proper Sheffielders'.

That is a good idea ,I will ask Ernest the furnace to unveil the name plaque,[another proper Sheffielder ]who would be wearing his white sweat muffler and flat eight panel cap with a woodbine tucked in the peak.

[Scabbydog 10]

My understanding is that the Council own the freehold to the land and the building. It belongs to the Council. The Land was given to them by Scottish Widows in return for the freehold/ extended lease of the rest of the Moor and the Council taking a loan of c£17m to be repaid over 50 years. The Council were expecting to be paid rent eventually and I think its a 93% occupancy they need to break even. Because of less than predicted footfall (about the same as the old market) then the Council havent charged any rent, but expect to do so in September unless they change theur minds again. Over time footfall should improve on the Moor as its redeveloped, but it remains to be seen whether the market can survive and flourish. The Uni have done a new survey and are making changes like longer opening hours.

 

If it is nor feasible, then I guess it would close and the site would be sold to recoup some of the loss.

 

It sounds like Scottish Widdows have no stake in the market. Their only interest is repayments on a loan they made to the council and the value of land and leases they own in the area. I can't see SW losing much sleep over it because the council won't default on the loans and they can rent and sell land to pretty much who they please. If the council want a major development they will need to negotiate a deal with SW.

 

I read in the papers a few days back that the rent free period at the markets has been extended yet again. There is also negotiations between stall holders and the council over rent reduction once charges are brought in. It seems stall holders are balking at this due to strings being attached.

 

The council say that rents will be cut because footfall isn't as billed. They say the situation is due to the Moor not being redeveloped. I'm rather more sceptical here. I wonder if the Moor will ever be redeveloped because as the place declines it becomes ever more difficult to get big names to commit to a scheme. I imagine the only chance would be for the council to underwrite a massive knock the lot down and start again scheme. But to do that they would need to drive out all the folk who currently trade there in whatever lowly capacity.

[999tigger 10]

If the council want a major development they will need to negotiate a deal with SW.

 

For the Moor or just the site the marekt is on? They dont have to negotiate a deal for the market building if they own it. The rest of the moor is up to SW and no negotiations needed as they are already in agreement what their plans are. Look it up.

 

I read in the papers a few days back that the rent free period at the markets has been extended yet again. There is also negotiations between stall holders and the council over rent reduction once charges are brought in.

 

On the one hand the stall holders will want to extend the rent free period as long as they can. From the councils point of view they want the market to pay for itself eventually over time. The length of the loan is for 50 years. They can afford rent free periods at the beginning because that will be catered for as the market settles in. If the rents do not come in as planned then they can keep postponing repayments, but this is at cost to the council tax payers. Its meant to stand on its own feet rather than being subsidised. If the market gets to a stage where it declines and not able to pay take over the loan repayments via rent, then they will close it imo and sell off the site. There was an interesting thread on the fate of wakefield market recently. Look it up if you wnat to see a place with a similar dilemma.

 

The council say that rents will be cut because footfall isn't as billed. They say the situation is due to the Moor not being redeveloped. I'm rather more sceptical here. I wonder if the Moor will ever be redeveloped because as the place declines it becomes ever more difficult to get big names to commit to a scheme. I imagine the only chance would be for the council to underwrite a massive knock the lot down and start again scheme. But to do that they would need to drive out all the folk who currently trade there in whatever lowly capacity.

 

You need to do some research on SW and the Moor they already have a plan in place to redevelop. The next stage is the Cinema, primark and extra retail next to Devenhams. Primark will bring some major footfall with it. They are also redeveloping the block in which McDonalds used to be. This is funded by SW and not the Council.

[Scabbydog 10]

For the Moor or just the site the marekt is on? They dont have to negotiate a deal for the market building if they own it. The rest of the moor is up to SW and no negotiations needed as they are already in agreement what their plans are. Look it up.

 

 

 

 

Yes it was called SevenStones. How's it going?

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2014 at 10:46 ----------

 

On the one hand the stall holders will want to extend the rent free period as long as they can. From the councils point of view they want the market to pay for itself eventually over time. The length of the loan is for 50 years. They can afford rent free periods at the beginning because that will be catered for as the market settles in. If the rents do not come in as planned then they can keep postponing repayments, but this is at cost to the council tax payers. Its meant to stand on its own feet rather than being subsidised. If the market gets to a stage where it declines and not able to pay take over the loan repayments via rent, then they will close it imo and sell off the site. There was an interesting thread on the fate of wakefield market recently. Look it up if you wnat to see a place with a similar dilemma.

 

 

It is all very well extending the rent free period. That doesn't stop the council's liabilty to pay the interest on the £18 million loan. If that loan is now 1 year old the council need to increase rents by 2% above inflation as they now have only 49 years of rent to pay 50 years of interest.. It just keeps jacking up. At the moment the council are talking rent reductions not rent increases. The debt burden is on the rise.

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2014 at 10:49 ----------

 

 

You need to do some research on SW and the Moor they already have a plan in place to redevelop. The next stage is the Cinema, primark and extra retail next to Devenhams. Primark will bring some major footfall with it. They are also redeveloping the block in which McDonalds used to be. This is funded by SW and not the Council.

 

I'm fully aware of all sorts of plans. Seven Stones was one that failed to get off the ground. You need to do some research on Bradford City Centre to realise that having an egg doesn't mean that next year you will have a chicken.

[lily may 10]

Unless I a mistaken, Leeds has a LOT more shops and a much bigger market.

 

In fact the reason Sheffield Market was in such a state is so many people choose to go to Leeds instead.

 

 

Maybe now the 'Freedom Riders' have to pay on Northern Rail they will shop in a Sheffield Market instead of Leeds and Barnsley

[999tigger 10]

Yes it was called SevenStones. How's it going?

 

I thought the topic was about the Moor or the site the market is on? Nothing to do with sevenstones. It is different from Sevenstones because SW of their own volition and with their own money are redeveloping it.

 

No idea why youve bothered to write the stuff about the loan because its what ive already said.

 

I'm fully aware of all sorts of plans. Seven Stones was one that failed to get off the ground. You need to do some research on Bradford City Centre to realise that having an egg doesn't mean that next year you will have a chicken.

 

Well its going to be down to whether you believe SW or not. At the moment I have no reason not to believe them that the developments they say will go ahead will do so. Its a totally different prospect on a smaller scale than Sevenstones and different people. The cinema complex already has the major tenants signed up.

[Scabbydog 10]

I thought the topic was about the Moor or the site the market is on? Nothing to do with sevenstones. It is different from Sevenstones because SW of their own volition and with their own money are redeveloping it.

 

No idea why youve bothered to write the stuff about the loan because its what ive already said.

 

 

 

Well its going to be down to whether you believe SW or not. At the moment I have no reason not to believe them that the developments they say will go ahead will do so. Its a totally different prospect on a smaller scale than Sevenstones and different people. The cinema complex already has the major tenants signed up.

 

 

I mention Seven Stones because it is a very good illustration of how plans unravel. There are many reasons why developments don't get off the ground. It is often because circumstances change. A retailer may well look at something like the lack of footfall at the new market and re-think their business plan. Those deleloping SevenStones certainly did a re-think and invested in a project in Leeds instead.

[999tigger 10]

Youll just have to wait and see like the rest of us. As I said.

It isnt sevenstones and involves different people on a much smaller scale.

The development is being funded by SW themselves as LL.

They already have the tenants signed up.

 

For those reasons the prospects look pretty good that it will be completed. How many people go to the Moor market is unlikely to effect them becayse they are destination reatilers in their own right.

[Joe-b-1 10]

I used to go the market three time a week and I never encountered these chavs and drunks that you mention.

 

Same here - been today in fact.

[spilldig 188]

That is a good idea ,I will ask Ernest the furnace to unveil the name plaque,[another proper Sheffielder ]who would be wearing his white sweat muffler and flat eight panel cap with a woodbine tucked in the peak.

 

Ah, woodbines. What a smoke. I packed up smoking in 1972, when all the tasteless filter-tip things came in but you would have to breathe in the exhaust from a bus now to get anywhere near as good as a woodbine.

Anyway, to get back to the market, I like the Moor market as it is now but I liked Castle market/Sheaf market, a lot more.

Edited August 13, 2014 by spilldig