Why ban smoking drugs IF..

[Chris_Sleeps 10]

Tobacco and alcohol both legal and both very widely used, abused, smuggled and sold on the black market

No they aren't. I don't know anyone that buys black market alcohol. Everyone I knows goes to the supermarket, or the pub.

[angos 10]

Really? you actually believe that?

 

Here are some assumptions/propositions;

 

1, the government grow/ manufacture the whole range of drugs.

 

2, the government are responsible for quality control/distribution/setting taxes and licensing sellers of drugs.

 

3, the government via police are responsible for imposing strict punishments on unlicensed growers/sellers, also sale to minors use in front of a minor etc etc.

 

4, the nhs is responsible for dealing with anybody who chooses to seek help

to be detoxed/rehab ect ect.

 

And you somehow think the above would be a bad thing?

So you don't want that?

 

It wouldn't be a bad thing if it was possible, the fact is it isn't possible as demonstrated by the tobacco and alcohol industry.

 

The government are simply incapable of doing what you want them to do and its a fantasy to think they can.

 

 

 

you want to keep it illegal?

Yes

 

 

you want people with no social conscience to produce drugs your children may take?

No, but they will do it anyway regardless of the fantasy you have about the government being able to control supply.

 

you want all the jobs in the drugs industry to never pay direct tax?

No, but the illegal drug industry will continue by undercutting the government taxed supply.

 

 

you want to give some one a criminal record because they choose to sit in on an evening and get stoned and listen to beatles records?

How would anyone know if they don't leave the house? and if no ones knows they won't get a criminal record.

 

you want to keep the money offshore and not help your mums pension?

No, but it will remain offshore as the criminal gangs undercut the government and continue supplying drugs on the black market, the tax payers will be left to pay the hefty bill to solve all the additional problems that would be caused by an increased supply and increased users.

 

 

I can't see the attraction in those things myself.

 

You have invented a fantasy world in order to justify your stance on drugs.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 16:48 ----------

 

You can't prove that legalisation won't work. I can prove that prohibition doesn't work.

Richard Branson

Steve Jobs

Bill Clinton

Bill Gates

Aldus Huxley

Sigmund Freud

Albert Einstein

 

People that use drugs are stupid??

 

 

 

No you can't, you can drag up a different era and claim it applies today, but it doesn't.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 16:55 ----------

 

That's a lie and you know it. I've already shared a link which I know you read that demonstrates that drug use falls after legalisation.

 

No you didn't, your link claimed it falls after treatment.

 

 

 

So legalisation has the added benefit of turning druggies into normal people overnight.

It doesn't change anything, they are still the same people, dependent on a drug to make them happy, but it would increase the amount of users.

 

 

 

You don't drink then? Or smoke, or like coffee or tea?

No

 

 

 

Or is the stupidity somehow coupled to the legal status?

The stupidity is coupled to people using drugs which alter their mind.

 

Personally I think it's stupid when someone wants to continue a failed policy despite the evidence and without being able to explain logically why.

 

I agree, that is why I have explained why making them legal will increase supply and demand, and support increased treatment for users. Weening people off drugs is the answer, not letting them buy and use more.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 16:57 ----------

 

Ironically angos uses logic..not in the same way you I or most understand it, but some weird twisted translation. I think he sees himself as wanting to present himself as the arch villain type in The Matrix. Robotic, empty, machine automated like. Maybe he really is; Mr Smith.

 

It comes from a clear mind, the drugs you have used have altered your ability to think rationally.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 16:59 ----------

 

No they aren't. I don't know anyone that buys black market alcohol. Everyone I knows goes to the supermarket, or the pub.

 

Yes they are.

 

£28.5 billion of tax revenue has been lost to the illicit market in spirits, beer, cigarettes, hand rolling tobacco and diesel between 2005-06 and 2009-10.

 

All can be be bought legally yet people choose the break the law and buy them illegally. What makes you think drugs will be any different?

Edited October 26, 2013 by angos

[Phanerothyme 12]

Why ban a drug that is harmless,

 

Cannabis isn't harmless.

 

It's relatively harmless compared to other commonly available street drugs, but the active ingredients are powerful psychotropics, and they can cause harm, especially when misused.

 

But the biggest harm you're likely to encounter from cannabis, on a balance of probabilities, is getting busted - which can obviously affect your whole life very negatively.

[psynuk 10]

The government are simply incapable of doing what you want them to do and its a fantasy to think they can.

 

No, but the illegal drug industry will continue by undercutting the government taxed supply.

 

No, but it will remain offshore as the criminal gangs undercut the government and continue supplying drugs on the black market, the tax payers will be left to pay the hefty bill to solve all the additional problems that would be caused by an increased supply and increased users.

 

You have invented a fantasy world in order to justify your stance on drugs.

 

I'd not underestimate the government when it comes to being able to organise things.

They do create the worlds most toxic substance and they do it well.

 

They could be quite efficient when motivated correctly.

If you could propose a viable way of creating, of admin, of revenue, of supply of drugs. The populace would vote for it. The ability of a govenent to proscribe heroin and its treatments (as it used to), to free up police and court time, to provide (100's of) thousands of jobs in the farming, chemical, distribution, packaging, retail industries is a vote winner.

Oh yeah not to mention the millions of drug users would be behind you, assuming they could be arsed to get up that is.

 

Your looking at it from a cynical point of view, 'It's bad, let's not make it worse'.

 

I'd propose taking a more realistic approach 'it's bad, but what were doing isn't making it better, so why not try something else?'

 

I've known many many people over the years take all kinds of drugs and the one single thing they had in common were they were criminals for doing so.

Most of those people would have gone to an approved government shop to buy them had the choice been available.

I could grow my own, but like tomatoes and alcohol I wouldn't, I'd rather go to the shop and pick from a reliable quality controlled dependable source.

When you buy cocain from a random dude in a club there's a very high chance that your not exactly getting genuine stuff. People trust the government/nhs to do as they say they will.

When was the last time you saw a patient second guessing the quality of the drugs proscribed for them? You just don't.

Which is why the criminal growers would be forced out.

[Phanerothyme 12]

 

£28.5 billion of tax revenue has been lost to the illicit market in spirits, beer, cigarettes, hand rolling tobacco and diesel between 2005-06 and 2009-10.

 

Diesel? Wtf has diesel got to do with this?

[janie48 98]

 

So you'd like another danger let loose on the streets would you?

 

No.....

[Bypassblade 10]

Originally Posted by Chris_Sleeps View Post

No they aren't. I don't know anyone that buys black market alcohol. Everyone I knows goes to the supermarket, or the pub.

 

Sorry sir but they do, there are plenty of programmes on TV with shops getting busted selling it, and fake booze at same price as real thing.

[Bonzo77 13]

No you can't, you can drag up a different era and claim it applies today, but it doesn't.

 

So you think prohibition is working?? Ha H!

[Glamrocker 10]

Well as long as you're prepared to tar yourself as scum I don't see any hypocrisy in your personal reasoning...but you are saying you're scum I take it?

Another one cant read or at least has trounle understanding ,Im paying a speeding fine next week cos i broke the law a little different to drug dealers..please note the emphasis on dealers which are the people I label scum

[angos 10]

I'd not underestimate the government when it comes to being able to organise things.

They do create the worlds most toxic substance and they do it well.

 

They could be quite efficient when motivated correctly.

If you could propose a viable way of creating, of admin, of revenue, of supply of drugs. The populace would vote for it. The ability of a govenent to proscribe heroin and its treatments (as it used to), to free up police and court time, to provide (100's of) thousands of jobs in the farming, chemical, distribution, packaging, retail industries is a vote winner.

Oh yeah not to mention the millions of drug users would be behind you, assuming they could be arsed to get up that is.

 

Your looking at it from a cynical point of view, 'It's bad, let's not make it worse'.

 

I'd propose taking a more realistic approach 'it's bad, but what were doing isn't making it better, so why not try something else?'

 

I've known many many people over the years take all kinds of drugs and the one single thing they had in common were they were criminals for doing so.

Most of those people would have gone to an approved government shop to buy them had the choice been available.

I could grow my own, but like tomatoes and alcohol I wouldn't, I'd rather go to the shop and pick from a reliable quality controlled dependable source.

When you buy cocain from a random dude in a club there's a very high chance that your not exactly getting genuine stuff. People trust the government/nhs to do as they say they will.

When was the last time you saw a patient second guessing the quality of the drugs proscribed for them? You just don't.

Which is why the criminal growers would be forced out.

 

Its fantasy world to think the government could do what you propose, and the criminal element won't be forced out, criminal already manufacture fake everything and people buy it because it cheaper, I can't get my head round the fact that people will buy fake cigarets, but they do, fake drugs on line, but they do. If the government can't supply cheaper than the drug lords they are onto a looser, how expensive will drugs be to produced in the UK with UK legislation and minimum wage, no way can the UK compete with foreign imports of cheap drugs.

[Bypassblade 10]

Another one cant read or at least has trounle understanding ,Im paying a speeding fine next week cos i broke the law a little different to drug dealers..please note the emphasis on dealers which are the people I label scum

 

I've had my share of run ins on this forum, even with you :hihi: but don't think I've ever gone low enough to label someone scum, that is a bit low. I have called people scum (killers, burglars & such), but not posters

[angos 10]

Diesel? Wtf has diesel got to do with this?

 

Nothing but its included in the tax our government loose because of smuggling.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 17:44 ----------

 

So you think prohibition is working?? Ha H!

 

Nope, but legalisation will just make a bad situation worse.