Sheffield Cycling Inquiry - Please contribute

[sheff71 10]

Fuller buses during rush hour? Have you thought this through?

 

Yes, if there's an extra bus added on that's taken 50 or so drivers or cyclists off the road, isn't that a benefit?

 

It'll never happen of course, as a reason many people cycle or drive to work is because you go direct from your house at the time that suits you, and not from and to wherever the nearest bus stops are, not to mention the cost of the bus fares and some people just don't like buses...

[Woodyspatch 10]

I got my cycle out this summer to cycle to the Gym & back after 3 trips I found it too terrifying. Cycle paths start & finish anywhere. I cant understand the cycle path on Saxon road the back of Virgin Gym. I'm afraid my cycle going back in the cellar at best or you might find me selling it on the Forum to get my money back for the new tyres and tubes.

[altus 538]

It is frustrating though when part of a road has been removed/narrowed for a cycle lane, and then the cyclists don't use it (for whatever reason) - it would've been better to leave as they were, but improve the quality of the road, and keep it clean and clear near the pavement (to encourage cyclists to that side where safe).

 

Whilst I think many of the narrow cycle lanes should be removed you're wrong if you think cycling near the pavement is safe. The government's cycle training scheme advises cycling roughly in the middle of the lane because it makes the cyclist more noticeable to drivers and prevents them from trying to overtake when it's unsafe for them to do so.

[sheff71 10]

Whilst I think many of the narrow cycle lanes should be removed you're wrong if you think cycling near the pavement is safe. The government's cycle training scheme advises cycling roughly in the middle of the lane because it makes the cyclist more noticeable to drivers and prevents them from trying to overtake when it's unsafe for them to do so.

 

That's fine then if they want to ride more centrally - though you'd have thought they'd (relevant cyclist bodies?) have mentioned it to the planners when they laid out all of the cycle lanes right up against the pavements (and therefore to non-cyclists giving the impression that's where cyclists would prefer or expect to ride normally)... not just in Sheffield of course.

[altus 538]

That's fine then if they want to ride more centrally - though you'd have thought they'd (relevant cyclist bodies?) have mentioned it to the planners when they laid out all of the cycle lanes right up against the pavements (and therefore to non-cyclists giving the impression that's where cyclists would prefer or expect to ride normally)... not just in Sheffield of course.

 

Oh they did. I suspect the people making the decisions were car drivers with little insight into what constitutes safe cycling.

[babymonkey 10]

Where do you propose these new roads should be - and what about the increase in traffic you'd cause if you're pushing cars from that road so you can make it into a cycle only road?

 

More people leaving the car at home and using bikes should actually help reduce congestion. I'm not advocating making roads cycle only, (although I would be in favour of making some more roads 'no through roads' to reduce rat running and make them more pleasant for residents, pedestrians and bike riders), but saying that we need cycle paths which are separated from motor traffic using the road, e.g. with a kerb, bollards. (see some examples from the Netherlands here) Also see what Seville has achieved in the last 10 years here.

 

Also, how are you thinking they should fund these changes, at a time of savage cutbacks?

 

We are already spending money on building cycle facilities which, as other users have mentioned, are sometimes not used by cyclists. Wouldn't it be much better to spend money on facilities which everyone can benefit from, and which are fit for purpose and will be well-used? Yes, this will inevitably cost more than just painting white lines and red lanes but encouraging more people to cycle will also have wider economic and health benefits which will be positive for the population and so should be seen as an investment.

 

There is money for cycling projects available. Just this year £30 million was awarded to UK cities in the Cycle City Ambition Grants (but not to Sheffield sadly...)

 

We have to get away from this idea that cycle facilities are only for people who currently ride bikes. We need to be thinking about the future, and building facilities which are easy enough for anyone to use, young or old, and which can be used for every day travel. Imagine if there was a safe route which meant your children could ride to school? All children have an innate love of cycling, and yet how many are ever allowed or able to do it anywhere other than on a leisure trail or in the park? People enjoy riding bikes, that's why leisure trails are so popular for a family day out, but at the moment it is simply not practical as a means of transport unless you are a) confident to ride with the cars, or b) prepared to accept long and inconvenient diversions if not.

 

The reason people choose car travel is because it is the ultimate in convenience. You can take a direct route to where you need to go and get there relatively quickly. You can choose when you leave and you don't need to wait around. Cars are so comfortable and convenient, that expecting people to going by bike instead when it means sacrificing a direct route simply will not work. People want a direct route, and that is why you see so many cyclists choosing the road over the cycle route. It also means that riding a bike is only currently only a practical transport option for the brave and bloody-minded. If you were to ask 100 people whether they enjoy riding a bike, I imagine the majority would say yes, but at the moment, people only do it on holiday or in a safe environment. Just look at the popularity of Centerparcs! People enjoy riding bikes, and if we make it easier and more practical for them to do so, then more people will start using bikes for short trips rather than having no option other than to use a car. Some people will still choose to use a car, but they will be able to make an active choice. For many people the feeling of danger means cycling is just not an option currently.

[aubreyboyce 10]

More people leaving the car at home and using bikes should actually help reduce congestion. I'm not advocating making roads cycle only, (although I would be in favour of making some more roads 'no through roads' to reduce rat running and make them more pleasant for residents, pedestrians and bike riders), but saying that we need cycle paths which are separated from motor traffic using the road, e.g. with a kerb, bollards. (see some examples from the Netherlands here) Also see what Seville has achieved in the last 10 years here.

 

 

 

We are already spending money on building cycle facilities which, as other users have mentioned, are sometimes not used by cyclists. Wouldn't it be much better to spend money on facilities which everyone can benefit from, and which are fit for purpose and will be well-used? Yes, this will inevitably cost more than just painting white lines and red lanes but encouraging more people to cycle will also have wider economic and health benefits which will be positive for the population and so should be seen as an investment.

 

There is money for cycling projects available. Just this year £30 million was awarded to UK cities in the Cycle City Ambition Grants (but not to Sheffield sadly...)

 

We have to get away from this idea that cycle facilities are only for people who currently ride bikes. We need to be thinking about the future, and building facilities which are easy enough for anyone to use, young or old, and which can be used for every day travel. Imagine if there was a safe route which meant your children could ride to school? All children have an innate love of cycling, and yet how many are ever allowed or able to do it anywhere other than on a leisure trail or in the park? People enjoy riding bikes, that's why leisure trails are so popular for a family day out, but at the moment it is simply not practical as a means of transport unless you are a) confident to ride with the cars, or b) prepared to accept long and inconvenient diversions if not.

 

The reason people choose car travel is because it is the ultimate in convenience. You can take a direct route to where you need to go and get there relatively quickly. You can choose when you leave and you don't need to wait around. Cars are so comfortable and convenient, that expecting people to going by bike instead when it means sacrificing a direct route simply will not work. People want a direct route, and that is why you see so many cyclists choosing the road over the cycle route. It also means that riding a bike is only currently only a practical transport option for the brave and bloody-minded. If you were to ask 100 people whether they enjoy riding a bike, I imagine the majority would say yes, but at the moment, people only do it on holiday or in a safe environment. Just look at the popularity of Centerparcs! People enjoy riding bikes, and if we make it easier and more practical for them to do so, then more people will start using bikes for short trips rather than having no option other than to use a car. Some people will still choose to use a car, but they will be able to make an active choice. For many people the feeling of danger means cycling is just not an option currently.

 

Very well put. I just wish I had the courage to use my bike again, but sadly in this wacky town of crazy infrastructure that is in bad condition, and the crazy riders/motorists arguing and bickering about who cut who up.......I will keep the bike, regretfully in the shed.

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2013 at 19:57 ----------

 

Oh they did. I suspect the people making the decisions were car drivers with little insight into what constitutes safe cycling.

 

That isnt very helpful in combating the "Us" and "Them" culture, is it?

[Cyclone 10]

I know 'monkey 69'. What works?

1. Council tax demo's.

2. The Green agenda - for a while, . . . . old hat now.

3. Ban the bomb - failed miserably till Gorbachov.

4. I think C.A.M.E.R.A. have done a good job for their cause.

5. The Countryside Alliance.

 

Shout loud as you can for as long as you can. Or Approach persistently the people who have influence (but shouting at them is not the best). Appealing to the masses is a very limited approach. (but not a total waste see 1. above)

OR Be politically correct - Aides campaign, --- oops that's Politically incorrect.

Get it on a political agenda.

 

But above all keep going.

 

ps. Cyclone - Please forgive any grammatical or speling mistakes. 48,000 posts and some (what %?) of them are constructive?

 

"Two wheels good. Four wheels bad."

 

I don't believe I've commented on the grammar of anyone posting on the thread, so why should I be concerned with yours?

I try to make all my posts constructive, or funny, or relevant. There wouldn't be much point in posting otherwise.

 

---------- Post added 07-10-2013 at 07:29 ----------

 

well theres a massive Cycle lane on the eurpa link road the one with the car people and goes past car crap ,sorry car craft ,

 

And i have been driving up and down this to and from work and im yet to see a Cyclists use it , just a waste of money as they just use the road

 

Which suggests that it's either badly designed or badly implemented.

 

---------- Post added 07-10-2013 at 07:32 ----------

 

Where do you propose these new roads should be - and what about the increase in traffic you'd cause if you're pushing cars from that road so you can make it into a cycle only road? Also, how are you thinking they should fund these changes, at a time of savage cutbacks?

I don't think anyone suggested making roads "cycle only". Unless I missed it somewhere.

 

They could replace some of the current cycle lanes and widen the roads, as it seems a lot of cyclists don't think the cycle lanes are either a) well maintained b) properly designed c) full of obstacles...

 

Out of interest, are the council doing a similar survey for drivers, and how to improve driving conditions in the city - surely it's best to get all sides of the story before making anymore rash decisions on road 'improvements'... after making such a mess with some of the cycle lanes and roads generally, would you trust them to make a better fist of it next time?

Most cyclists are drivers anyway, so they speak from a perspective of both.

 

---------- Post added 07-10-2013 at 07:34 ----------

 

It shouldn't matter about it being a slower ride though, just the safety aspect - if cyclists have to be inconvenienced a little to provide them with a safer route, surely that's better.

Isn't that an argument to lower the speed limit for motorists.

It shouldn't matter if their journey takes longer, so long as safety for everyone is improved.

 

I's only like motorists have had to adjust to the various changes over the years to force them away from the city centre and onto the ring road where possible, even though it is less direct, slower and more inconvenient for most... as for bumpy roads, it's hardly like most of the roads in Sheffield are of good quality even for cars!

I don't think anyone is going to argue this point.

[sheff71 10]

I don't believe I've commented on the grammar of anyone posting on the thread, so why should I be concerned with yours?

I try to make all my posts constructive, or funny, or relevant. There wouldn't be much point in posting otherwise.

 

 

---------- Post added 07-10-2013 at 07:32 ----------

 

I don't think anyone suggested making roads "cycle only". Unless I missed it somewhere.

Most cyclists are drivers anyway, so they speak from a perspective of both.

 

 

 

---------- Post added 07-10-2013 at 07:34 ----------

 

Isn't that an argument to lower the speed limit for motorists.

It shouldn't matter if their journey takes longer, so long as safety for everyone is improved.

I don't think anyone is going to argue this point.

 

I misread the previous message, so ignore that bit about cycle only roads

 

The speed in and around the city centre is already painfully slow at busy times due to traffic or the way the roads are controlled - doesn't need to be any slower! The comment was because it seemed a few cyclists were commenting on the cycle lane routes being slower or taking longer, but surely that's a fair trade off for a safer cycling experience (for those that don't fancy taking on the cars - I know I wouldn't - although I think i'd be more worried about lorry drivers and bus drivers if I was a cyclist).

[dutch 68]

If you want to turn this society into a cycling one like the way many other Europeans do you have to do it properly.

Build separated cycling paths separated from the main car traffic.

 

What is done here by council is fiddling with the intense reality of installing "REAL" measures.

Sheffield will never be like those places I mentioned, the hills are too steep for comfortable cycling, it is a workout.

[morrisminor 10]

Sheffield will never be like those places I mentioned, the hills are too steep for comfortable cycling, it is a workout.

 

http://thinkingaboutcycling.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/when-ordinary-cycling-meets-a-hill/

 

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2009/10/effect-of-hills-on-cycling.html

 

http://www.manifietso.org/cycling-hills-excuse/

 

http://www.cycling-embassy.org.uk/wiki/people-cycle-in-the-netherlands-because-it-is-flat

[adamf 10]

Where do you propose these new roads should be - and what about the increase in traffic you'd cause if you're pushing cars from that road so you can make it into a cycle only road?

 

The improved conditions for cycling should encourage more people to switch. Many others can be pressured to carpool or use public transport (allowing everyone, including those who have a legitimate need to drive alone, to travel faster).

 

http://makeitgreen.webs.com/img/cbb.jpg

 

or, if you dislike Comic Sans:

http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2011/01/cars-bus-bikes-the-space-taken-by-60-people/

 

---------- Post added 07-10-2013 at 11:59 ----------

 

They've setup a questionnaire to get peoples opinions on cycling in Sheffield here. http://meetings.sheffield.gov.uk/council-meetings/scrutiny/culture-economy--sustainability/cycling-inquiry

 

Just in: the deadline has been extended to 18 October.

Edited October 7, 2013 by adamf