Sheffield Town Centre What a Dump

[cuttsie 1,091]

Sorry Cuttsie .

I thought you had said somewhere about " even the shoppers looked a mess ".

Not you - then sorry.

Cheers buddy, The one thing I have learned is never to go on how people look only on how they treat others even though you may not always agree with them.

[langy 10]

Further to my last post. I've lived, worked, visited most cities in Australia and many in England and Sheffield is no worse than any of them and better than some. But the biggest differance I found on my recent return was how friendly Sheffield people were. All the ones I met any way, from shop workers to passangers on the busses and barmaids in the many fantastic pubs that we visited. Thanks Sheffield for a memorable two weeks, (my lads kept asking why I ever left).

PS I think I meant Winter Garden not Summer Garden!

[wobblybob50 10]

My partner Sue is originally from Whitstable in Kent and says she wouldn't want to move anywhere else now. We have visited Kent a few times and its a lovely part of the country but she always says its nice to get back home to Sheffield.

We have a smashing city and Im sure the improvements will get done eventually. Id rather live here that that place at the top of the M1 !!!!

[mikebatty 10]

My partner Sue is originally from Whitstable in Kent and says she wouldn't want to move anywhere else now. We have visited Kent a few times and its a lovely part of the country but she always says its nice to get back home to Sheffield.

We have a smashing city and Im sure the improvements will get done eventually. Id rather live here that that place at the top of the M1 !!!!

 

Fresher eyes have a clearer view.

[Cyclone 10]

Hi I came back to Sheffield mid to late August this year to visit the meat and fish market to get what was once the best place for fresh crabs and shellfish.

All most of it has gone, I walked towards wher the Sets was all I could see was street traders outside what was shops very dissapointed as a Sheffielder born and bred.

 

I decided to go for a pint all the local pubs were boarded up around the Castel Market, so I walked towards what was Marpels, what a depressed place the main Post Office Building all boarded up and falling into an eyesore, The iconic Red Telephone Boxes removed the square was Betting Shops and Gold Shops.

 

I finished up at the Penny Black at Pond Street and it was just a changing room for people who were due in court.

 

I parked in the car park under what was the Top Rank and paid £8 for less than 2 hours.

 

I will allways defend my home Town, but it is difficult when I see what it has become.

Maybee I am looking back to the late 60's to the 80's when it was a City to be proud of sadly it is turning into a neglected place.

I doubt I will think again of returning to the City that was the Capital of Yorkshire.

 

Sandie

 

You managed to walk through the worst bits that are left in the mostly redeveloped city centre, and go to one of the worst pubs around.

 

Had you walked a little bit further you could have gone to the Sheffield Tap at the station, where you'd be amazed at the range of beers (and probably the price).

Or had your turned towards the centre instead of the bus station you could have seen the peace gardens and winter gardens, and had a beer at one of the pubs facing onto them, or maybe walked over to Leopold Sqr and had a beer there or something to eat.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 14:25 ----------

 

pense of the Market, Fitzallen Sq, Wicker,King St, parts of Town and the people who work and shop in em!

 

How is gradual redevelopment somehow "at the expense" or the areas that are still to be redeveloped... Somewhere has to be done first.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 14:28 ----------

 

Sandie .

I fully endorse your comments.

I have put a new thread on general discussion entitled Sheffield - is it so bad ? following a visit last Saturday.

I visited the "Penny Black "for the first time in years , it having been a local when I worked at the GPO sorting office . I had to get out .Both the pub and its clientele was depressing to say the least.

We then went to the old " Queens Head ". Whoever has redesigned and revamped the place should be strung up outside . It is now nothing short of a plastic repro. of what someones idea of a modern pub may be like . It has totally lost any character for which it was renowned . There was only staff in the place- no customers . We just got through the door and the staff rose from their seats as if relieved to see some potential customers . We just threw our arms up in despair and walked out .

People think that you are being over critical by these remarks but I don't think that is so . When you live with something day in day out you tend to see things differently from those who make infrequent visits .

 

Your idea of visiting Sheffield is to pop into two of the least appealing pubs in the city centre?

[mikebatty 10]

You managed to walk through the worst bits that are left in the mostly redeveloped city centre, and go to one of the worst pubs around.

 

Had you walked a little bit further you could have gone to the Sheffield Tap at the station, where you'd be amazed at the range of beers (and probably the price).

Or had your turned towards the centre instead of the bus station you could have seen the peace gardens and winter gardens, and had a beer at one of the pubs facing onto them, or maybe walked over to Leopold Sqr and had a beer there or something to eat.

 

When you visit a place after some years have lapsed , You visit places that you once knew . At the back of your mind you do expect changes but , at the same time you also expect there to be some pleasantries which remind you of the good times you had .

After nearly 40 years after I had left Sheffield , albeit that I have visited on several occasions , for the first time in all that time I visited the Penny Black.

Yes , It did attract some of the more undesirables at the time . However , it also had a number of the more " acceptable " clientele . Unfortunately it was full of the former .

It is often said that one should not revisit the past , for fear of disappointment . However , I have visited some of the other places which you had suggested , which were very pleasant . Sadly, one has to learn from their own mistakes and , hopefully , not to be so disappointed when you come across the " shock culture ".

That may sound a bit snobbish , but it is in no way intended as such . For whenever one visits an area , no matter how once familiar , one has to be prepared . That is one of lifes learning curves . One which I shall never repeat.

[Cyclone 10]

I went to that part of the "City Centre) for a reason as my OP said. I have always gone to that part, I did not go for restaurants bars and coffee shops.

 

My post tried to put forward what I saw in that area and post my dissapointment of how it has become a deprived area.

Why should I blame myself to revisit an area of town I grew up with from the late 50's to the early 80's.

All I would ask is why it has happened.

As a 10 year old Saturday was a bus ride to Pond Street then walk up through Fitzallan Squire to Willson and Gumpets (Toy Shop) then on to Woolies then the Market to spend our pocket money.

 

Then at the age of 16 to 18 it was again Pond Street, 1st pint Penny Black then up to the Blue Bell and on to the Stonehouse, maybee the Claymore and the Nelson.If we pulled it would be on to the heartbeat.

All those area's are now no go area's Why?

 

---------- Post added 02-09-2013 at 19:12 ----------

 

 

I dont like your comment "unless done deliberatley".

All I did was go back to my home town where I was born in the early 50's, this is a forum where people are free to post their comments, and this was unless changed "Sheffield History & Expats"

I have walked through the hole in the road from when it was built to when it was closed never a problem.

Rose Tinted Specks, well I dont were specks are yours to dark you dont see

 

 

Perhaps the problem is that you seem to believe the area you visited reflects the entire city centre, when in reality it's the minority and the most unpleasant bit.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 15:03 ----------

 

You are quite right that a more genuine and committed individual was encouraged to take up the position of both Councillor and MP when the remunerations were less lucrative

 

Prey tell, what generous package is on offer a for a basic councillor?

[mikebatty 10]

You managed to walk through the worst bits that are left in the mostly redeveloped city centre, and go to one of the worst pubs around.

 

Had you walked a little bit further you could have gone to the Sheffield Tap at the station, where you'd be amazed at the range of beers (and probably the price).

Or had your turned towards the centre instead of the bus station you could have seen the peace gardens and winter gardens, and had a beer at one of the pubs facing onto them, or maybe walked over to Leopold Sqr and had a beer there or something to eat.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 14:25 ----------

 

 

How is gradual redevelopment somehow "at the expense" or the areas that are still to be redeveloped... Somewhere has to be done first.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 14:28 ----------

 

 

Your idea of visiting Sheffield is to pop into two of the least appealing pubs in the city centre?

No . You are wrong .

In the last 40 years I have visited on a number of occasions .

Sadly this was my first disappointment in all that time . Never to be repeated.

At the end of this entry was a comment on " What would Chuck Norris do " ?

The only Norris I knew from the Post Office would have been -Surrupansupup.

All well and good when you was in good company.

[Cyclone 10]

When you visit a place after some years have lapsed , You visit places that you once knew . At the back of your mind you do expect changes but , at the same time you also expect there to be some pleasantries which remind you of the good times you had .

After nearly 40 years after I had left Sheffield , albeit that I have visited on several occasions , for the first time in all that time I visited the Penny Black.

Yes , It did attract some of the more undesirables at the time . However , it also had a number of the more " acceptable " clientele . Unfortunately it was full of the former .

It is often said that one should not revisit the past , for fear of disappointment . However , I have visited some of the other places which you had suggested , which were very pleasant . Sadly, one has to learn from their own mistakes and , hopefully , not to be so disappointed when you come across the " shock culture ".

That may sound a bit snobbish , but it is in no way intended as such . For whenever one visits an area , no matter how once familiar , one has to be prepared . That is one of lifes learning curves . One which I shall never repeat.

 

That's a fair point. Since I've been of an age to drink in the city the PB has always been a somewhat run down establishment. But if your memories from before were different, then it would come as a bit of a shock.

Sandie does seem to have taken a walk through what is now the worst areas of town and then decided that the entire city is a dump based on that though.

[mikebatty 10]

Perhaps the problem is that you seem to believe the area you visited reflects the entire city centre, when in reality it's the minority and the most unpleasant bit.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 15:03 ----------

 

 

Prey tell, what generous package is on offer a for a basic councillor?

 

You are perfectly free to have those details presented to you by the council if you request them .

As for me , I have no idea , only to suggest that they are far in access of what I would consider a fair return for a genuine and sincere commitment.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 15:37 ----------

 

That's a fair point. Since I've been of an age to drink in the city the PB has always been a somewhat run down establishment. But if your memories from before were different, then it would come as a bit of a shock.

Sandie does seem to have taken a walk through what is now the worst areas of town and then decided that the entire city is a dump based on that though.

 

Sadly, she may have been under the same preconception of how things were as I was . You visit an area expecting it to have at least a modicum of similarity. When you arrive to find it far below your expectations it does come as a shock. I have to say that it takes some time for your mind to come to some sort of rationale . Having done that , you go away and come to a conclusion.

Sandie has done that , it would appear ,based upon the area which she visited from her memories of the area which she once knew , she was disappointed . I don't think she was referring to the city as a whole.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 16:36 ----------

 

Well, the city council seemed to think that taking shoppers away from the city centre wasn't a bad idea when one of the first of the new tram routes opened was the one from the centre to Meadowhall !

 

I think that your comments are a little unfair .

As large out of town shopping developments have taken place in every major city , Sheffield has been no exception.

With a vast expanse of land like Meadowhall having become vacant , due to the demise of the steel industry, it would have been criminal to say the least , for Sheffield City Council not to have recouped its finances on behalf of the ratepayers by " supervising " the redevelopment of the area .In doing so , it provided a transport infrastructure to serve the area .

Yes , many city's - not only here but in America, and over Europe , have seen the centres run down to the benefit of these new " out of town mall's. However , that was the way the " new style " shopping habits were being directed . Not by the city council , or even the shoppers themselves wanted . It was being foisted on them by the developers and the retail market .

 

Governments and local authority's the world over are trying to innovate new ideas to regenerate city centres and reverse their decline .

Whilst ever the shopping public patronise these monoliths of the financial market - at the expense of the demise of the city centres ( as they did with our manufacturing industries ) then we will be stuck in this continued downward spiral.

Don't be fooled into blaming the council for something that was beyond their control. They did their best in the light of this new world order . So please ! Give credit where credit is due .

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 17:14 ----------

 

It makes you wonder how many dodgy deals have been done in Sheffield .

I mean how can millions be spent on Buildings ,Don Valley.The Town Hall extention, Sheaf Valley Baths,The Wedding cake, The Sheaf and Castle Markets, The centre for popular Music,Park Hill, The Moor etc these along with countless council estates all pulled down or transfered into the hands of multi nationals and spec builders.

 

Socialist Council don't make me laugh they make Del Boy look like a saint.

 

---------- Post added 01-09-2013 at 22:27 ----------

 

All built at the expense of the Market, Fitzallen Sq, Wicker,King St, parts of Town and the people who work and shop in em!

 

Some of the comments you make Cuttsie have a ring of fairness in them .( I had to be somewhat " choice " in my selection of terminology there ), but I have to challenge you on your overall reasoning .

The Council, I would suggest, endeavoured to attract to the city the best advantages it could . Be it in the sporting field ie. the commonwealth games etc,. And it did so to great acclaim.

 

Many housing estates over the country have been transferred over to housing associations because the government have given much more advantage financial support for maintenance and development of those developments .

 

Land in the city centre does not belong to the city council. It merely reviews, comments , and approves or otherwise , the planning applications before it .

In doing so it endeavours to maintain some semblance of criteria of design in order to avoid a " hotch potch " of buildings as you see in some city's .

In addition its primary function in approving the foregoing is to ensure a revenue "income " in order to function financially. To do otherwise would be a dereliction of its statutorial responsability

I would therefor suggest that your criticisms would be more justifiably directed towards the national government rather than your local government.

Edited October 4, 2013 by mikebatty
correction

[cuttsie 1,091]

You are perfectly free to have those details presented to you by the council if you request them .

As for me , I have no idea , only to suggest that they are far in access of what I would consider a fair return for a genuine and sincere commitment.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 15:37 ----------

 

 

Sadly, she may have been under the same preconception of how things were as I was . You visit an area expecting it to have at least a modicum of similarity. When you arrive to find it far below your expectations it does come as a shock. I have to say that it takes some time for your mind to come to some sort of rationale . Having done that , you go away and come to a conclusion.

Sandie has done that , it would appear ,based upon the area which she visited from her memories of the area which she once knew , she was disappointed . I don't think she was referring to the city as a whole.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 16:36 ----------

 

 

I think that your comments are a little unfair .

As large out of town shopping developments have taken place in every major city , Sheffield has been no exception.

With a vast expanse of land like Meadowhall having become vacant , due to the demise of the steel industry, it would have been criminal to say the least , for Sheffield City Council not to have recouped its finances on behalf of the ratepayers by " supervising " the redevelopment of the area .In doing so , it provided a transport infrastructure to serve the area .

Yes , many city's - not only here but in America, and over Europe , have seen the centres run down to the benefit of these new " out of town mall's. However , that was the way the " new style " shopping habits were being directed . Not by the city council , or even the shoppers themselves wanted . It was being foisted on them by the developers and the retail market .

 

Governments and local authority's the world over are trying to innovate new ideas to regenerate city centres and reverse their decline .

Whilst ever the shopping public patronise these monoliths of the financial market - at the expense of the demise of the city centres ( as they did with our manufacturing industries ) then we will be stuck in this continued downward spiral.

Don't be fooled into blaming the council for something that was beyond their control. They did their best in the light of this new world order . So please ! Give credit where credit is due .

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 17:14 ----------

 

 

Some of the comments you make Cuttsie have a ring of fairness in them .( I had to be somewhat " choice " in my selection of terminology there ), but I have to challenge you on your overall reasoning .

The Council, I would suggest, endeavoured to attract to the city the best advantages it could . Be it in the sporting field ie. the commonwealth games etc,. And it did so to great acclaim.

 

Many housing estates over the country have been transferred over to housing associations because the government have given much more advantage financial support for maintenance and development of those developments .

 

Land in the city centre does not belong to the city council. It merely reviews, comments , and approves or otherwise , the planning applications before it .

In doing so it endeavours to maintain some semblance of criteria of design in order to avoid a " hotch potch " of buildings as you see in some city's .

In addition its primary function in approving the foregoing is to ensure a revenue "income " in order to function financially. To do otherwise would be a dereliction of its statutorial responsability

I would therefor suggest that your criticisms would be more justifiably directed towards the national government rather than your local government.

Well I can not remember the Commonwealth Games and I know that planning is a complicated subject but I do know that millions [billions?] have been wasted on public buildings that have been deemed to be not fit for purpose after just ten ,twenty, or thirty years.

 

Your comment on "hotch potch" stiles of City centres facinates me as that is exactly the thing I find facinating about many Towns and City's that I have visited, The unexpected little street or area that one suddenly comes upon as in Barcelona , Liverpool, Paris, or may I add Sheffield[i even like the area around Cambridge and Charles St in Sheffield[ an area that is ear marked for demolition so as we can build another faceless souless glass and plastic shopping mall.

[Bypassblade 10]

Totally agree.

Why choose the worst part of the City Centre to walk around unless done deliberately?

You didn't bother to walk up the hill to Fargate, the peace gardens, Barkers Pool and the Devonshire quarter ?

 

---------- Post added 02-09-2013 at 09:39 ----------

 

 

The hole in the road was just that - a hive of criminality in the 70's and 80's. You wouldn't have dared walk down there during the hours of darkness.

Short memory and rose tinted specs I fear.

 

Yes that's what the HIR became we cannot deny, but when it opened and for a few years it was a beacon of forward thinking planning. We had Sheaf Market lost it, Castle Market, losing it.

 

You have to remember people have used CM for years and have their favourite places, what if these places choose not to move. Just been talking to the wife and in the new market she has been told all the food & drink places will be together, rather like Oasis in Mhall.

 

You might get a new market but you are eroding a long tradition, and creating a Styrofoam environment.

 

Why couldn't money have been spent in that area to develop the area? now the Council build a new market on the Moor. Lets face it the Moor only became the dump it did, due to the Council not developing it when they opened Meadowhall.

 

They just let everyone move from there and never back filled, hence we have the pound shops, Gregg's & the like on there now.

 

It does not hurt to remember Sheffield how it used to be and yes we have to move on, but just to let an area decay is wrong.