..seismic change is under way.. The death of the middle classes

[LeMaquis 10]

They'll probably emigrate (those who haven't done so already.) Taking all the jobs they produce with them.

 

Here's hoping.

 

---------- Post added 25-08-2013 at 08:08 ----------

 

They only exist because people want them to exist, I'm better than you etc. That's the point I'm making.

 

They exist because of an unequal share of resources and power, as supported by both Tory and Labour governments in the last 30 years.

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

They'll probably emigrate (those who haven't done so already.) Taking all the jobs they produce with them.

...

 

Here's hoping....

 

They only exist because people want them to exist, I'm better than you etc. That's the point I'm making.

 

They exist because of an unequal share of resources and power, as supported by both Tory and Labour governments in the last 30 years.

 

 

And what do you think will happen once you've got rid of the current middle class? Do you really think those who replace them will be any different?

 

Or will it be a case of: (cue 'Tannenbaum')

 

"The working class can kiss my arse,

I've got the foreman's job at last!"

[Anna B 1,414]

Never believed in the middle class, "I'm better than you, but not him," lark. You either have to work or you don't.

 

As John Prescott said - "We're all middle class now."

 

The point being this will affect nearly everybody, some more than others, but the majority of the next generation.

 

Do you think the penny is beginning to drop at last?

 

---------- Post added 25-08-2013 at 13:15 ----------

 

The disappearance of the middle-class. What a lovely thought. The greed of the middle-class, especially over house prices, has finally caught up with them. They've been pandered to by Thatcherite Tory and Labour governments for over 30 years and it's killing them. Ha ha. They should try being working class. At least they're tough enough to survive.

 

What an ill-thought out response.

 

If it reduces the middle classes, what do you think it's going to do to the working class?

Edited August 25, 2013 by Anna B

[Maz3 10]

The middle class was always a vague concept, taking in everyone from minor aristocrats fallen on hard times, to everyone with a higher education, when this led fairly automatically to some form of profession. What we're seeing now is the top end living standards accelerating far out of reach of the majority, an end to most social mobility, and many so-called middle class younger adults can never hope to attain the standard of living their parents enjoyed. Meanwhile there are families where 2 or 3 generations have been on benefits. What chance have they got?

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

I was told: "Life doesn't come with any warrantys or guarantees. It's what you make of it."

 

Has that changed?

 

Is 'somebody' (probably somebody called 'they') supposed to find you a job?

 

If so, don't count on it. - He wasn't around 40-50 years ago and he's probably not around now, either.

[Anna B 1,414]

I was told: "Life doesn't come with any warrantys or guarantees. It's what you make of it."

 

Has that changed?

 

Is 'somebody' (probably somebody called 'they') supposed to find you a job?

 

If so, don't count on it. - He wasn't around 40-50 years ago and he's probably not around now, either.

 

Yes it's changed. Like the OP says, a seismic shift is under way, the like of which has not been seen in our lifetimes.

 

It's hard to envisage as we have no personal experience of what it will mean. All the old certainties are going - a home, a job, a family, a decent education, enough money to live on, working to better yourself, social mobility, a welfare state, marriage, even food, can no longer be depended upon.

 

Add to that world debt, the collapsing economy, the collapse of democracy, the dire political parties, climate change, the upheavel in the middle east, the collapse of the English church and rise of radical Islam, the decline of America and the rise of China, and you begin to realise we're all in a serious mess that isn't going to sort itself out any time soon.

 

It's the coming together of many disparate threads to create a perfect storm...

[chem1st 10]

I was told: "Life doesn't come with any warrantys or guarantees. It's what you make of it."

 

Has that changed?

 

Is 'somebody' (probably somebody called 'they') supposed to find you a job?

 

If so, don't count on it. - He wasn't around 40-50 years ago and he's probably not around now, either.

 

Noblesse oblige?

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

Noblesse oblige?

 

Since when? Nobody found houses or jobs for people 40-odd years ago (when I started looking.)

 

Back then, the most you could borrow was 3 times your annual salary (and if you were married, the bank wouldn't even consider your wife's income - she might give up work to have a child (which would make it even more difficult for you to pay the mortgage.)

 

In the mid 1970's, it was not uncommon for people to have to put down £10k (or if you lived in an expensive area even more) deposit before the bank would consider you for a mortgage. It's not easy to get started now - but it wasn't easy back then, either.

[chem1st 10]

Since when? Nobody found houses or jobs for people 40-odd years ago (when I started looking.)

 

 

Neighbours tell me, you could quit one day and start another the next no problem.

 

Although, come the 70s things did start to change, and the full employment after the wars years was starting to die out.

 

That doesn't remove the responsibility of those in power to exercise their power for good. I.e. use what they control for the benefit of all.

 

For example, large landowners should free up land for farming if they aren't prepared t farm it themselves. Large mineral resource owners have a duty to provide employment, fair wages and living conditions to the peoples whose birthright they have stole (or alternatively - cheap fuel so that people can provide their own employment)...

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

Neighbours tell me, you could quit one day and start another the next no problem.

 

Although, come the 70s things did start to change, and the full employment after the wars years was starting to die out.

 

That doesn't remove the responsibility of those in power to exercise their power for good. I.e. use what they control for the benefit of all.

 

...

 

That is one way of looking at it, I suppose. - The 'Harold Wilson Way' : "Light up a Camel, sit on your asses, this is the promised land."

 

If you sat on your arse for long enough, somebody would probably give you a job (and if you were lucky, give you a council house, too.)

 

Those who decided to fend for themselves got better jobs (better paid, too) bought better houses and became more affluent.

 

At that time, "working to better yourself' was the norm. Nowadays, perhaps the state will look after you?

 

It depends on what you expect out of life, I suppose. If you think the world owes you a living, you will probably get one - but it may not be as good as the one the guy next door (who works for his living) gets.

 

You can always blame the fact that he has more than you do on Maggie.

 

(Particularly if you live in the People's Democratic Republic of South Yorkshire, where Maggie is to blame for everything.)

[Ms Macbeth 74]

Since when? Nobody found houses or jobs for people 40-odd years ago (when I started looking.)

 

Back then, the most you could borrow was 3 times your annual salary (and if you were married, the bank wouldn't even consider your wife's income - she might give up work to have a child (which would make it even more difficult for you to pay the mortgage.)

 

In the mid 1970's, it was not uncommon for people to have to put down £10k (or if you lived in an expensive area even more) deposit before the bank would consider you for a mortgage. It's not easy to get started now - but it wasn't easy back then, either.

 

I agree that no-one found us houses, we lived in a couple of dire rented properties back then. I'm quite horrified when I look back to where we lived when I had our second child! I also agree about the difficulty of getting a mortgage. However, £10k would have bought a decent house outright in South Yorkshire in the 70s! We bought our first house in 1972, a brand new semi detached bungalow, which cost less than £5k, and traded up 4 years later to a house that still cost less than £10k. Jobs were plentiful; but wages were pretty low, the real increases started in the late 70s/early 80s. Most families in those days had only one working parent, the father, and childcare was pretty much unaffordable for ordinary people.

 

One of the main differences in the UK now has been the huge increase in property ownership over the last 40 years, even accounting for the recent small decline. Not many ordinary people inherited property 40 years ago, but surely that's bound to be changing and benefitting at least some of the younger generations.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Ms Macbeth

[chem1st 10]

That is one way of looking at it, I suppose. - The 'Harold Wilson Way' : "Light up a Camel, sit on your asses, this is the promised land."

 

If you sat on your arse for long enough, somebody would probably give you a job (and if you were lucky, give you a council house, too.)

 

Those who decided to fend for themselves got better jobs (better paid, too) bought better houses and became more affluent.

 

At that time, "working to better yourself' was the norm. Nowadays, perhaps the state will look after you?

 

It depends on what you expect out of life, I suppose. If you think the world owes you a living, you will probably get one - but it may not be as good as the one the guy next door (who works for his living) gets.

 

You can always blame the fact that he has more than you do on Maggie.

 

(Particularly if you live in the People's Democratic Republic of South Yorkshire, where Maggie is to blame for everything.)

 

I think people should have the right to grow food, I think people should have the right to build houses, I think they should have right to start business and consume local natural resources (albeit whilst compensating other locals/natives).

 

You suggest that people go out and pay permission to thieves to do the above. How will they get on if they do that. They'll be working for nowt and still need the council to house and feed them.

 

Look at our society - ever increasing amounts need food banks, housing benefits, in work benefits etc. These are the workers too, and it's to eat worse food than their forbears and to live in smaller housing, often ex council houses divided into tiny slave boxes.