Right to build needs to be brought back after 525 year absence.

[tinfoilhat 11]

Chemist, what about a project... a societal experiment.

 

Find a large area of land (perhaps where DVS is once it has gone), and sell plots for a few thousand to ordinary people say 10m x 20m and allow people to build what ever they want (up to a certain height perhaps). Building regs would have to be a goner for a while.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing what would happen myself.

 

That's a series each of you've been framed, cowboy builders and 999 emergency right there.

 

---------- Post added 06-08-2013 at 23:11 ----------

 

Not really.

 

Fundamentally this is about providing plots to build on. Planning and building regs would still have to be applied. Hopefully some requirement for greener building too.

 

Unless there's been a rethink is chems ideology, regs etc are not required. Which they should be. Environmental concerns, traffic issues. It might be ok in some countries but its bonkers here.

[*_ash_* 88]

That's a series each of you've been framed, cowboy builders and 999 emergency right there.

 

Might make a few back on the site then

[andygardener 10]

Until the Erection of Cottages Act 1588, any individual had the right to build themselves a house on common land providing they could do it within a day and were going to use the house as a home rather than as a property speculation. It was a way of making sure everyone could afford a house.

 

So if we repealed the act and everyone with 4 bits of plywood and some tied together carrier bags for a roof had 24 hours to build their dream shack wherever they wanted you'd think this was a really good idea?

 

Go check out the page hall thread for how people with that mentality are getting on in properly built houses before letting them cobble together their own.

[I1L2T3 10]

That's a series each of you've been framed, cowboy builders and 999 emergency right there.

 

---------- Post added 06-08-2013 at 23:11 ----------

 

 

Unless there's been a rethink is chems ideology, regs etc are not required. Which they should be. Environmental concerns, traffic issues. It might be ok in some countries but its bonkers here.

 

I'd tend to agree with the freeing up of land, but in terms of what can be built it would all have to be to a standard. I agree letting people do what they want would be chaotic.

[tinfoilhat 11]

I'd tend to agree with the freeing up of land, but in terms of what can be built it would all have to be to a standard. I agree letting people do what they want would be chaotic.

 

Exactly. I don't want folk to think i dont think there isn't a housing crisis. There is a housing crisis. House prices going up isn't a cause for celebration. We need to do something. Stoke council flogging knackered houses for next to nothing for people to do up and own and live in (not rent). Great idea. That sort of idea needs rolling out with the streets left to decay from pathfinder. I saw a piece on the bbc website about derelict asylums. Fix them, convert them - these places are huge.

 

I'm no expert and would welcome any ideas, just not chem1sts shanty town free for all.

[chem1st 10]

Exactly. I don't want folk to think i dont think there isn't a housing crisis. There is a housing crisis. House prices going up isn't a cause for celebration. We need to do something. Stoke council flogging knackered houses for next to nothing for people to do up and own and live in (not rent). Great idea. That sort of idea needs rolling out with the streets left to decay from pathfinder. I saw a piece on the bbc website about derelict asylums. Fix them, convert them - these places are huge.

 

I'm no expert and would welcome any ideas, just not chem1sts shanty town free for all.

 

Shanty towns are being constructed illegally anyhow.

 

If you gave people the freedom to build, you might have a few shanty towns, but these would disappear over time.

 

What you'd find happen is that people would build better housing, and the lower quality housing would be freed up, and people with lower incomes could occupy that. The housing would get better and better as time progressed.

 

Currently we force the decent housing to be freed up in many areas (think bedroom tax and the resulting empty homes in areas of high unemployment). People are then forced into lower and lower quality housing (HMOs, sheds in beds, illegal shanty towns etc.).

 

Surely it would be far better to allow decent housing to be built, and even allow poor quality housing to be built (which would be far better than the illegal shanty towns), as the occupiers could have some form of security of tenure and incentive to improve, and an ability to save and fund improvements when freed from the burden of rent.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 02:21 ----------

 

Chemist, what about a project... a societal experiment.

 

Find a large area of land (perhaps where DVS is once it has gone), and sell plots for a few thousand to ordinary people say 10m x 20m and allow people to build what ever they want (up to a certain height perhaps). Building regs would have to be a goner for a while.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing what would happen myself.

 

This would be an interesting experiment, and I think you would find that although some poor quality housing might be built, it would soon be improved, and continue to improve.

 

A lot of the new build housing today is pretty poor housing and I can;t see it lasting very long, I can see much of it falling into disrepair as time progresses as people are overburdened by the mortgage debt attached to their slave boxes.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 02:23 ----------

 

I'd tend to agree with the freeing up of land, but in terms of what can be built it would all have to be to a standard. I agree letting people do what they want would be chaotic.

 

I'm not really against regulation, but I think even if we didn't have any, we would have a much better system than the one we have now. The situation is so dire currently, to temporarily allow the voluntary formation of legal shanty towns is preferable to having the forced formation of illegal shanty towns.

[alchemist 35]

 

Until the Erection of Cottages Act 1588, any individual had the right to build themselves a house on common land providing they could do it within a day and were going to use the house as a home rather than as a property speculation. It was a way of making sure everyone could afford a house.

 

I would love to see you try that today. What common land? Build in a day?

[llamatron 10]

525 years ago, an Englishman had the RIGHT TO BUILD.

 

There was no housing crisis, for an English man could build himself a house. Citizens had the freedom to house themselves.

 

Fast forward to today and we have a major housing crisis. Young people (and increasingly older people too) are being enslaved via property, many end up homeless, many end up poor, businesses are forced out of business due to high housing costs for employees.

 

A select few get rich without doing anything. And the British disease of rentierism infects greater amounts of the population, destroying our society from within.

 

The state MUST house the people, for they lack the right to house themselves. However, the state has shown itself to be a complete failure and incapable of providing for it's people, the state might as well be dead. It is an expensive and useless bureaucracy that does not provide for the people. It actively stops the people from providing for themselves.

 

Until the Erection of Cottages Act 1588, any individual had the right to build themselves a house on common land providing they could do it within a day and were going to use the house as a home rather than as a property speculation. It was a way of making sure everyone could afford a house.

 

525 years ago, this disgusting act, which removed the freedom of our fellow countrymen to house themselves was introduced.

 

Today we have a housing crisis, and it gets worse, and worse, and the state makes it worse, speculators and parasites profit massively, whilst our fellow countrymen are forced into poorer and poorer housing. Our living standards are falling rapidly.

 

This has got to end. We need to restore the RIGHT TO BUILD and let people house themselves. An Englishman should have a right to build a home in his own country upon his native land.

 

What do you think?

 

Should we let English people house themselves?

 

Or should we have laws in place that ensure our peoples living standards fall, whilst a few non productive rentiers profit from our fellow man's misery?

 

I think you are an obsessive crack pot whose ideas are as ill thought out as the millenium dome!

[alchemist 35]

This would be an interesting experiment, and I think you would find that although some poor quality housing might be built, it would soon be improved, and continue to improve.

 

Why would it improve? what would be the incentive?

[tinfoilhat 11]

Shanty towns are being constructed illegally anyhow.

 

If you gave people the freedom to build, you might have a few shanty towns, but these would disappear over time.

 

What you'd find happen is that people would build better housing, and the lower quality housing would be freed up, and people with lower incomes could occupy that. The housing would get better and better as time progressed.

 

Currently we force the decent housing to be freed up in many areas (think bedroom tax and the resulting empty homes in areas of high unemployment). People are then forced into lower and lower quality housing (HMOs, sheds in beds, illegal shanty towns etc.).

 

Surely it would be far better to allow decent housing to be built, and even allow poor quality housing to be built (which would be far better than the illegal shanty towns), as the occupiers could have some form of security of tenure and incentive to improve, and an ability to save and fund improvements when freed from the burden of rent.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 02:21 ----------

 

 

This would be an interesting experiment, and I think you would find that although some poor quality housing might be built, it would soon be improved, and continue to improve.

 

A lot of the new build housing today is pretty poor housing and I can;t see it lasting very long, I can see much of it falling into disrepair as time progresses as people are overburdened by the mortgage debt attached to their slave boxes.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 02:23 ----------

 

 

I'm not really against regulation, but I think even if we didn't have any, we would have a much better system than the one we have now. The situation is so dire currently, to temporarily allow the voluntary formation of legal shanty towns is preferable to having the forced formation of illegal shanty towns.

 

Shanty towns are not being put up illegally now. There are sheds with beds in the south east of England, which is a problem but shanty towns are a lie. Of course, if you want to travel to, lets say two different shanty towns in south yorkshire with a copy of today's star and take a picture and its it here with a google map reference ill happily pay a tenner for each site and travel expenses.

 

Sounds fair?

[chem1st 10]

Shanty towns are not being put up illegally now. There are sheds with beds in the south east of England, which is a problem but shanty towns are a lie. Of course, if you want to travel to, lets say two different shanty towns in south yorkshire with a copy of today's star and take a picture and its it here with a google map reference ill happily pay a tenner for each site and travel expenses.

 

Sounds fair?

 

In the South East there are sheds with beds and now there are also shanty towns emerging. Up here we have derelict and unfinished buildings being squatted and also sheds with beds are starting to emerge. There is also a massive increase in HMO tenements. Gone are the days of a private bathroom for new entrants to the property 'market'.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 13:27 ----------

 

Why would it improve? what would be the incentive?

 

Do you want to live in a better house?

 

Would you improve your dwelling if you were not suffering the financial burden of excessive rent?

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 13:29 ----------

 

I would love to see you try that today. What common land? Build in a day?

 

We need to bring back common land. UK citizens need access to UK land.

 

Building in a day would not really be suitable for self build, however, large buildings containing multiple housing units can be constructed in a day.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 13:31 ----------

 

I think you are an obsessive crack pot whose ideas are as ill thought out as the millenium dome!

 

Your entitled to your opinion.

 

And whilst I might be a tad obsessive, I'm hardly a crackpot as my fears are being realised.

 

Do you really want your children and grandchildren to end up homeless or living in substandard accommodation due to a perverse system that stops people from building decent accommodation, actively demolishes it and forces up its price and in turn penalises the productive and prudent whilst rewarding non productive rentiers?

[tinfoilhat 11]

In the South East there are sheds with beds and now there are also shanty towns emerging. Up here we have derelict and unfinished buildings being squatted and also sheds with beds are starting to emerge. There is also a massive increase in HMO tenements. Gone are the days of a private bathroom for new entrants to the property 'market'.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 13:27 ----------

 

 

Do you want to live in a better house?

 

Would you improve your dwelling if you were not suffering the financial burden of excessive rent?

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 13:29 ----------

 

 

We need to bring back common land. UK citizens need access to UK land.

 

Building in a day would not really be suitable for self build, however, large buildings containing multiple housing units can be constructed in a day.

 

---------- Post added 07-08-2013 at 13:31 ----------

 

 

Your entitled to your opinion.

 

And whilst I might be a tad obsessive, I'm hardly a crackpot as my fears are being realised.

 

Do you really want your children and grandchildren to end up homeless or living in substandard accommodation due to a perverse system that stops people from building decent accommodation, actively demolishes it and forces up its price and in turn penalises the productive and prudent whilst rewarding non productive rentiers?

 

Your thinking is flawed. Lets say some bright spark took your idea in 1952 and divvied up all the common land to our 50million in habitants. Where would the extra 15 million we've got today live?

 

We are a small island with limited resources. Building willy nilly with no standards or law is chaos. You've put forward nothing that will change my view (or even answered most of the questions I've put)