foxy lady 10 #361 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) how far do you think£2300 will go in legal fees? in a case like this:roll: I'm not sure it will go very far, but as the crowdfunding has only been in place for a few days with the intention of raising £100,000 I imagine it will go far enough. For example yesterday alone £1333 was donate. The question probably ought to be how much will the council be prepared to spend in order to counter an action, as that money would be coming from general taxation? https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/Friends-of-Graves-Park I note in the past Friends of Graves Park have raised around £500,000 in previous fundraisers when projects came along. Edited January 17, 2016 by foxy lady Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Blackbeard 10 #362 Posted January 17, 2016 I'm not sure it will go very far, but as the crowdfunding has only been in place for a few days with the intention of raising £100,000 I imagine it will go far enough. For example yesterday alone £1333 was donate. The question probably ought to be how much will the council be prepared to spend in order to counter an action, as that money would be coming from general taxation? https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/Friends-of-Graves-Park I note in the past Friends of Graves Park have raised around £500,000 in previous fundraisers when projects came along. You may find the accounts of the Friends of Graves Park interesting before you quote figures like £500,000. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1080407&SubsidiaryNumber=0 Compare that with the accounts for Graves Park. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=510841&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
foxy lady 10 #363 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) You may find the accounts of the Friends of Graves Park interesting before you quote figures like £500,000. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1080407&SubsidiaryNumber=0 Compare that with the accounts for Graves Park. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=510841&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList I think you mistake accounts for fundraising. The FOGP funded the building of a playground, an arboretum, much of the restoration of Norton Nursery and some rather large projects in the animal farm. Money raised for those projects would not appear on an accounts balance sheet for the charity, but would appear on the balance sheets for the projects involved. Edited January 17, 2016 by foxy lady Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Dubaidani13 10 #364 Posted January 17, 2016 I'm not sure it will go very far, but as the crowdfunding has only been in place for a few days with the intention of raising £100,000 I imagine it will go far enough. For example yesterday alone £1333 was donate. The question probably ought to be how much will the council be prepared to spend in order to counter an action, as that money would be coming from general taxation? https://crowdfunding.justgiving.com/Friends-of-Graves-Park I note in the past Friends of Graves Park have raised around £500,000 in previous fundraisers when projects came along. how many of these pledges would ever be actually paid over, i note someone has pledged £1000 and the rest is made up of 10,20 and 30£ pledges. as far as i am aware there is no need to counter any action as there isnt one and wont be one:roll: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Blackbeard 10 #365 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I think you mistake accounts for fundraising. The FOGP funded the building of a playground, an arboretum, much of the restoration of Norton Nursery and some rather large projects in the animal farm. Money raised for those projects would not appear on an accounts balance sheet for the charity, but would appear on the balance sheets for the projects involved. It is a good few years since I was a trustee of a charity but then all monies rasied had to be shown in the accounts along with expenditure, things may have changed since then but I suspect not. There has to be an audit trail to show where the money came from and where it went and according to the Friends accounts from years ending 31 Mar 1011 to 31 Mar 2015 income was £26,550 and expenditure was £27,432. Could someone more up to date with charity law please comment? Edited January 18, 2016 by Blackbeard Missed an s off years ending Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
foxy lady 10 #366 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) It is a good few years since I was a trustee of a charity but then all monies rasied had to be shown in the accounts along with expenditure, things may have changed since then but I suspect not. There has to be an audit trail to show where the money came from and where it went and according to the Friends accounts from year ending 31 Mar 1011 to 31 Mar 2015 income was £26,550 and expenditure was £27,432. Could someone more up to date with charity law please comment? You might just ask the council who paid for the childrens play ground by the Cobnar Road entrance to the park. Having consulted a past committee member I'm told the full cost of clearing the site, buying the new kit and landscaping the area came to around £140,000. The FOGP raised the whole amount and the council was the major contractor for the work. They also bought some fully equipped mountain bikes for the police so that they could patrol the area. A few years later they raised around £80,000 to landscape Chantry Meadows. The Spring Watch Programme got involved and donated £10,000 and Channel 4 paid to film a short film clip of projects in the park. Perhaps you are just looking at the wrong years. That is just a few of the fund raising efforts, but if you think you know better. Edited January 17, 2016 by foxy lady Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Blackbeard 10 #367 Posted January 17, 2016 You might just ask the council who paid for the childrens play ground by the Cobnar Road entrance to the park. Having consulted a past committee member I'm told the full cost of clearing the site, buying the new kit and landscaping the area came to around £140,000. The FOGP raised the whole amount and the council was the major contractor for the work. They also bought some fully equipped mountain bikes for the police so that they could patrol the area. A few years later they raised around £80,000 to landscape Chantry Meadows. The Spring Watch Programme got involved and donated £10,000 and Channel 4 paid to film a short film clip of projects in the park. Perhaps you are just looking at the wrong years. That is just a few of the fund raising efforts, but if you think you know better. I am not saying I know better, I am just asking for evidence, the evidence for the last 5 years is on the Charity Commission website and that information came from the FOGP accounts. The accounts for Graves Park are also on the CC website, it makes interesting reading because it is more detailed. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=510841&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
foxy lady 10 #368 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I am not saying I know better, I am just asking for evidence, the evidence for the last 5 years is on the Charity Commission website and that information came from the FOGP accounts. The accounts for Graves Park are also on the CC website, it makes interesting reading because it is more detailed. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=510841&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList I didn't know I needed to prove it. It is a well recorded fact that FOGP funded the playground at the Cobnar Road entrance. It was a few years ago. There have been many projects but unless they have a specific project they don't raise funds. Perhaps if it bothers you so much you should check the accounts for the years when projects were being funded. The fact remains that the fund raising by FOGP over the 20 years that they have existed has raised in the region of £500,000 for projects within Graves Park. If you want to cast doubt that the playground, Chantry Meadows, The Arbouretum and other projects were not funded by FOGP that's up to you. It doesn't alter the fact that they are well capable of raising funds when they need to. Interestingly a broadcast went out on Radio Sheffield on Thursday regarding this which prompted Calendar News to run an interview on Saturday around 6pm. It would seem that FOGP have plenty of funds already in their account to serve an injunction and are raising funds to see it through. Edited January 17, 2016 by foxy lady Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Blackbeard 10 #369 Posted January 17, 2016 I didn't know I needed to prove it. It is a well recorded fact that FOGP funded the playground at the Cobnar Road entrance. It was a few years ago. There have been many projects but unless they have a specific project they don't raise funds. Perhaps if it bothers you so much you should check the accounts for the years when projects were being funded. The fact remains that the fund raising by FOGP over the 20 years that they have existed has raised in the region of £500,000 for projects within Graves Park. If you want to cast doubt that the playground, Chantry Meadows, The Arbouretum and other projects were not funded by FOGP that's up to you. It doesn't alter the fact that they are well capable of raising funds when they need to. Interestingly a broadcast went out on Radio Sheffield on Thursday regarding this which prompted Calendar News to run an interview on Saturday around 6pm. It would seem that FOGP have plenty of funds already in their account to serve an injunction and are raising funds to see it through. Please don't take it personally Foxy Lady, I alway make sure of my facts when I post on the forum just in case I have to defend what I say, I suspect there is misinformation from both sides. I have to admit that I personally have doubts about the capabilities of the friends when I read this quote from the chair "Caroline Dewar, chair of the Friends, said it has been estimated it would cost around £160,000 to fully repair. The Friends originally wanted to raise money to repair the cottage and rent it to somebody working for the parks department – but this idea was rejected, leading alternatives to be explored. She said: “We wanted to discuss ideas but they wanted to see full business plans before they would be prepared to consider them. We can’t do a business plan for three to four ideas, it is a lot of work for a community group.” This was after "Plans to sell the 17th century Cobnar Cottage, on Cobnar Road, Norton Lees, for £80,000 were put on hold last year for 12 months to allow the Friends of Graves Park to come up with viable alternative uses." http://www.thestar.co.uk/lifestyle/culture/sheffield-s-graves-park-cottage-set-to-be-sold-off-1-6954049 As a retired businessman, if I went to my bank manager for a loan and said that I could not give him a business plan I would be shown the door straight away. Looking at the accounts for Graves Park on the CC website the deficit for 2014 was £253,397 and for 2013 £248,114 and who paid this, why you, me and the rest of the council tax payers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Jonny5 10 #370 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Please don't take it personally Foxy Lady, I alway make sure of my facts when I post on the forum just in case I have to defend what I say, I suspect there is misinformation from both sides. I have to admit that I personally have doubts about the capabilities of the friends when I read this quote from the chair "Caroline Dewar, chair of the Friends, said it has been estimated it would cost around £160,000 to fully repair. The Friends originally wanted to raise money to repair the cottage and rent it to somebody working for the parks department – but this idea was rejected, leading alternatives to be explored. She said: “We wanted to discuss ideas but they wanted to see full business plans before they would be prepared to consider them. We can’t do a business plan for three to four ideas, it is a lot of work for a community group.” This was after "Plans to sell the 17th century Cobnar Cottage, on Cobnar Road, Norton Lees, for £80,000 were put on hold last year for 12 months to allow the Friends of Graves Park to come up with viable alternative uses." http://www.thestar.co.uk/lifestyle/culture/sheffield-s-graves-park-cottage-set-to-be-sold-off-1-6954049 As a retired businessman, if I went to my bank manager for a loan and said that I could not give him a business plan I would be shown the door straight away. Looking at the accounts for Graves Park on the CC website the deficit for 2014 was £253,397 and for 2013 £248,114 and who paid this, why you, me and the rest of the council tax payers. 500k live in Sheffield so thats 2p per person per year. And considering we already know that SCC employees are carting dog**** all over the city I'm not sure how much credence I give to that 250k figure being compromised by incompetent management. Edited January 17, 2016 by Jonny5 Dodgy maths lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
1978 14 #371 Posted January 18, 2016 Looking at the accounts for Graves Park on the CC website the deficit for 2014 was £253,397 and for 2013 £248,114 and who paid this, why you, me and the rest of the council tax payers. 500k live in Sheffield so thats 2p per person per year. And considering we already know that SCC employees are carting dog**** all over the city I'm not sure how much credence I give to that 250k figure being compromised by incompetent management. Not too sure about the maths here. Isn't that nearer 50p per citizen per year? Just saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Jonny5 10 #372 Posted January 18, 2016 Looking at the accounts for Graves Park on the CC website the deficit for 2014 was £253,397 and for 2013 £248,114 and who paid this, why you, me and the rest of the council tax payers. Not too sure about the maths here. Isn't that nearer 50p per citizen per year? Just saying. and I've got a degree in Mathematics as well (it was a "tiring" day yesterday)! It's not a lot though and my point stands that any deficit from managing the park is suspect as the council can't manage anything other than rigged polls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...