Sheffield Council trying to kill off city centre pubs and bars?

[cv65user 10]

i dont go to town centre any more because of that very extended parking charges till 2030 . there was a big yellow sign saying parking charges were being extended

 

i now go to parkway retail park for home bargains , etc

meadhowhall ,

parkgate retail park - morissons ,

asda , lidl , aldi near by

 

all free parking

[Planner1 438]

Well I have a copy of the agreement here, and you clearly have never read it or you wouldn't be spouting this nonsense out of your backside. The agreement only allowed for the use of the land as public parkland and specifically excludes any form of construction. The agreement also was for the land to be given in exchange for the councils agreement to fund maintenance which the council readily agreed. So any monies from the JG Graves Charitable fund were extra to requirement.

 

You will of course be aware that the land belongs to The Graves Park Charity. All profits generated from car parking therefore belong to that charity and not to the council.

If that were the case, why has any construction whatsoever, including the car park, ever been allowed?

 

It's easy enough to agree to maintain something, but unless there is a very tightly specified standard laid down, you will have considerable leeway in what "maintaining" actually means. It could mean mowing the grass once a year and that's it.

 

Parks and Countryside paid for the pay an display machine and as far as I am aware, they get all the income.

 

As you have the agreement to hand, would you kindly quote the paragraph which says they can't charge for parking on the car park they couldn't build and that any profits go to the Charity?

 

If you have real concerns that the Council are acting in breach of the agreement I suggest you take it up with them directly.

[Longcol 604]

So - back to the OP - given the huge increase in city centre bars / pubs in the last ten years or so - any evidence parking charges are killing these off?

[Planner1 438]

i dont go to town centre any more because of that very extended parking charges till 2030 . there was a big yellow sign saying parking charges were being extended

 

i now go to parkway retail park for home bargains , etc

meadhowhall ,

parkgate retail park - morissons ,

asda , lidl , aldi near by

 

all free parking

You can park for 2 quid all day in the city centre.

 

How much do you spend on fuel going to all those places to avoid paying it?

[sheff71 10]

 

If people don't use the cinemas in the city centre and there is no market for them, why is a new multiplex being built on the Moor?

 

What is this about going to the theatre and gigs being hard work because of no adequate parking? There are 10,000 public parking spaces in the city centre. There are more multi storey and surface level car parks than you can shake a stick at within easy walking distance of the main venues.

 

Parking is easy and plentiful.

 

There are already two perfectly good cinemas where you can park for free within Sheffield, with a selection of bars and restaurants, and other entertainment venues nearby. More importantly, it feels like they welcome motorists - unlike the city centre for a number of years (e.g. the Moorhead fiasco mentioned earlier). If you're wealthy enough to afford to live in the city centre apartments, then the proposed developments will be great for you of course...

 

It is a shame how the city centre has stood still or gone backwards, but i'm sure this has happened elsewhere too - and clearly the council have no intention of trying to woo motorists into the city centre, so the powers that be must be happy enough with the situation as it is. Time will tell, and maybe the revamped Moor area might one day be an area to be proud of again... if they actually can get the work completed...

[top4718 838]

So - back to the OP - given the huge increase in city centre bars / pubs in the last ten years or so - any evidence parking charges are killing these off?

 

Bars and pubs do not generally attract people who need to park.

[sheff71 10]

You can park for 2 quid all day in the city centre.

 

How much do you spend on fuel going to all those places to avoid paying it?

 

£2 all day in the city centre? on any day, and in all city centre car parks? And even if you go from one part of the city centre and then later that day may wish to park in the city centre again (e.g. to goto one of the restaurants), then you've already paid for the day?

 

Interesting information, thank you - I didn't realise you could park anywhere in the city centre all day for just £2

[Longcol 604]

Bars and pubs do not generally attract people who need to park.

 

I agree - this is how the thread started - look at the title.

 

Therefore I think we can agree that the council are not trying to kill off city centre pubs and bars

[Mr Bloom 10]

Oh a comedian. If they cant walk they will have a disabled badge allowing them to park. So your point is that the majority of people cant walk? excellent

 

What ARE you talking about?

 

I can't walk far due to hopefully temporary mobility issues. I've never applied for anything in my life, including a disabled badge, and why should I?

 

I'm not sure how that translates in to the majority of people not being able to walk.

 

Glad you thought it was funny, anyway.

 

---------- Post added 23-07-2013 at 01:57 ----------

 

No they are not. They are charging people to park their vehicle, not to use the park. The park is free.

 

Why not pay? It's not that expensive.

 

In effect they are charging those with mobility problems to use the park.

 

I thought I made it clear, that is not the only problem. As yellow lines appear in the vicinity, people who could park further away, use the car park so there are no spaces for people like me.

 

---------- Post added 23-07-2013 at 02:00 ----------

 

Ah ,that old chestnut......... money is tight so who can we fleece ?......... Yep, the motorist is alway ripe for milking .

 

It's just sheer laziness on the council's part. Target the motorists as that's easy to administer. Instead of targetting anti-social behaviour in the city centre and littering and irresponsible dog owners that disgrace our city and plunge it further in to the depths, and actually do some good for the city.

[top4718 838]

I agree - this is how the thread started - look at the title.

 

Therefore I think we can agree that the council are not trying to kill off city centre pubs and bars

 

The thread also mentions other businesses in the city, the pubs and bars will always have a level of custom by their very nature but they lose out in footfall from the casual drinker who may call for a drink in passing.

 

You and others defend to the hilt what the council is doing but the city is on an obvious downward (and perhaps irreversible) slide while the likes of Leeds/Manchester thrive, so how do you explain this?

Edited July 23, 2013 by top4718

[dawny1970 10]

interesting point about the disabled who do rely on a car, why are they being penalised to use a car to use a park in sheffield?

 

 

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[barpen 10]

If that were the case, why has any construction whatsoever, including the car park, ever been allowed?

 

It's easy enough to agree to maintain something, but unless there is a very tightly specified standard laid down, you will have considerable leeway in what "maintaining" actually means. It could mean mowing the grass once a year and that's it.

 

Parks and Countryside paid for the pay an display machine and as far as I am aware, they get all the income.

 

As you have the agreement to hand, would you kindly quote the paragraph which says they can't charge for parking on the car park they couldn't build and that any profits go to the Charity?

 

If you have real concerns that the Council are acting in breach of the agreement I suggest you take it up with them directly.

 

 

I do love it when the council wheel out their experts like you to lecture us on the history of Graves Park and the charitable deeds that control its governance. Are you one of the tame idiots who told the council that Norton Nursery wasn't part of the park and could be sold for housing, or perhaps advised that St Lukes could relocate into the park as that would be what JG Graves would have wanted? Mind you I doubt those experts still work for the council after the amount those fiascos cost.

 

The simple answer to why anyone allowed the car park to be built is the land wasn't part of the charity at the time. I'm surprised an expert like you didn't know that. But rest assured there is a charity that looks after the interests of the park and is not afraid to take action when the council attempts to cash in on the Graves legacy.

 

Incidentally if the council feel they can skimp on maintaining the park that's up to them. In the past that sort of action has proved a real vote winner when May comes around.