No ebooks allowed at Upperthorpe swimming pool

[Independent- 10]

Sounds like it is a Child Protection (Safeguarding) issue. Realistic concerns about strangers filming children (and adults) and potential consequences. As they say, new Kindles, phones and MP3 players are film/camera and Skype enabled.

 

Read the newspaper whilst waiting, and appreciate not knowing about child protection issues yourself, a luxury some children and adults would love to have.

 

It is not just potential risk of future abuse of children and vulnerable adults. It is also linked to Family Law proceedings and custody settlements (where film can be used).

 

As I say, revel in the luxury of not knowing about these things and read the newspaper whilst your child swims!

Edited July 25, 2013 by Independent-

[top4718 838]

Sounds like it is a Child Protection (Safeguarding) issue. Realistic concerns about strangers filming children (and adults) and potential consequences. As they say, new Kindles, phones and MP3 players are film/camera and Skype enabled.

 

Read the newspaper whilst waiting, and appreciate not knowing about child protection issues yourself, a luxury some children and adults would love to have.

 

It is not just potential risk of future abuse of children and vulnerable adults. It is also linked to Family Law proceedings and custody settlements (where film can be used).

 

As I say, revel in the luxury of not knowing about these things and read the newspaper whilst your child swims!

 

Ludicrous, can you not film the same things in the local park (should you feel the need to), lets petition the government to ban cameras in public places shall we

 

Idiotic assumptions like this seem to assume that every (mostly) male adult is a total pervert after explicit pictures of kids, in the real world there will be a very, very small minority that would do this and they will just conceal a camera by some means.

 

This nanny state nation is ridiculous, lets start seeing common sense in matters like these instead of clap trap, still it keeps some pen pusher in a job no doubt.

Edited July 25, 2013 by top4718

[garrence 10]

Sounds like it is a Child Protection (Safeguarding) issue.

.....

As I say, revel in the luxury of not knowing about these things

 

We don't know about these things because nobody will offer any explanation beyond the vague "child protection issues".

 

No one has offered any firm reason for how a photo ban protects anything.

[docrobin 10]

Benjyp,

 

Since your last post was obviously directed to me, I hope you won't take offence if I respond. You are correct that I don't work there, and I'm assuming that since you know who was the manager on duty there on the day, that perhaps you do. However, I am a customer of theirs, and have been for many years, and their ban does affect my freedoms with their building. As such, like anyone else, I can discuss whether these rules are rational and sensible. They don't have to change their rules, and I don't have to go; these things are self evident.

 

Hopefully part of being a community is to respect everybody's views, and these have to be heard to be respected. As such I have asked for feedback on this forum, and believe that I have let the conversation run without interference, even where posters have chosen to go for a personal attack instead of discussing the issue. The only people I have contacted outside of this forum are the pool executive management, a local councillor, and the HSE and NSPCC, to find out what their view is on the risks involved (one would presume that they would certainly understand the issues).

 

I have not contacted press or the radio. BBC Radio Sheffield contacted me as a result of the debate on this forum, and I only agreed to participate when they insisted it was matter of national debate and they would get representatives from the national safety organisations to attend also. If you listened to the live broadcast, I think I made that quite clear. I also mentioned how great I think the pool and the staff there are generally, which I had also stressed in the prerecorded sections, but they had chosen to edit out.

 

You mentioned the ASA rules. While they declined to attend, they did send a statement:

 

"It is the pool operator’s decision to ban electronic books from the spectator area. The ASA does not have a specific policy or guidance on kindles or similar book reading devices that do not have a camera function. The majority of people in the spectator gallery are parents and guardians there to watch their child, in the instance that they wish to read an electronic book, the ASA would not take issue with this.

 

The ASA provides guidance on photography at ASA training and events and use of photographic equipment, this can be found in Wavepower, Section 2, page 84-85 below.

 

http://www.swimming.org/asa/library/document/wavepower-2009-11-section-2"

 

 

I do respect those who say this is a child protection issue, or an HSE risk, but have to question why those views don't seem to be endorsed by the national organisations put in place to monitor and lead such things.

 

I'm afraid I'm naturally curious, and always want to find why things are the way they are or need to be changed. My kids won't put up with a 'because I said so', and I try to ensure I always discuss the reasons behind certain rules with them. Sometimes they come up with sensible counterarguments and the rules change.

 

I'm sorry you seem to have taken such offence to the discussion or my role in it. I would like to repeat that generally I think that Zest centre is a fantastic community resource, and most of the staff I come into contact with there are excellent and welcoming. I do hope that as a result of the discussion they consider revising their new rules, but even if they don't, I would have no hesitation in recommending that people continue to use them, or make a visit for the first time to see what's on offer.

Edited July 25, 2013 by docrobin

[themagicwand 10]

My child attends swimming lessons at Zest. When I saw the signs banning mobile phones etc. at poolside, do you know what I did? I took a book. Problem solved.

 

Did I feel I was being subjugated by the nanny state? No. Did I feel my civil liberties were being infringed? No. Rather I saw it as a sensible precaution taken by the pool, and an opportunity for me to get re-acquainted with a much loved book.

 

There isn't a problem. The reason this whole thing has dragged on for 10 (ten!) pages here is because of outraged keyboard warriors who take any possible opportunity to vent their spleen at the world. Get over it. Move on.

[top4718 838]

My child attends swimming lessons at Zest. When I saw the signs banning mobile phones etc. at poolside, do you know what I did? I took a book. Problem solved.

 

Did I feel I was being subjugated by the nanny state? No. Did I feel my civil liberties were being infringed? No. Rather I saw it as a sensible precaution taken by the pool, and an opportunity for me to get re-acquainted with a much loved book.

 

There isn't a problem. The reason this whole thing has dragged on for 10 (ten!) pages here is because of outraged keyboard warriors who take any possible opportunity to vent their spleen at the world. Get over it. Move on.

 

The whole thing has dragged on for ten pages because the ruling is ridiculous in the extreme and people are getting sick and tired of such rubbish.

[themagicwand 10]

The whole thing has dragged on for ten pages because the ruling is ridiculous in the extreme and people are getting sick and tired of such rubbish.

I would humbly suggest there are bigger issues to get excited about. But hey, it's your life. Spend your time as you wish.

[benjyp 10]

Hi DR,

 

Thanks for the reply. No, no offence taken - TBH I don't think that's possible. Plus we don't know each other personally and we're both new to this forum. In fact your response was a much more pleasant read through - a stark contrast from the thread starter.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head - this forum is a community but then so is Zest. You see I feel there are two sides to every story and there should be openness from both sides. From my viewpoint I thought it was unfair to openly criticized a community without giving them a chance to respond. Surely by doing this on a public forum you must have realized at some point that you may be generating bad publicity for them. And during a difficult time too might I add. It seems like you created a new account, out of nowhere, with the sole purpose to be controversial and it wasn't until points made from other more established and veteran users that the tone and purpose changed. But more importantly than this not everyone was aware of the steps outside of the forum you had undertaken. Thank you for being open and transparent.

 

I didn't listen to the live debate at the time unfortunately but it does sound as though from what you said the post-broadcast was an edited version. Maybe this is a standard tactic they use to boost ratings/listeners? Did you escalate this to the station that your views were misrepresented? After all they were portraying you in a manner you were not happy with.

 

I just spotted that you did post about the ASA guidelines yourself which I missed (post #3 I believe). The thread had grown a lot since I last looked at it so just skimmed to any relevant parts that may have mentioned my username. Just to be clear guidelines and rules are two different things. Regarding the national organizations I think perhaps you give them too much credit for joined-up thinking. I don't know I couldn't comment on all of them. But at the end of the day it's up to the Centre how they use the guidelines and what enhancements, if any, they are entitled to make.

 

Using a recent example - would you be equally curious and challenge why your children were not allowed handheld consoles/you a kindle on flights during take-offs/landing or do you accept those rules without question regardless if you understood the reasoning behind them or not. I'd be interested to hear your viewpoint on this as I think they are quite similar to swimming pool rules in a number of ways.

 

I'm glad we are both in the same boat, in more ways than one, and agree that the Zest Community are a great bunch of people, the service they provide and need our continued support. Thank you for the positive comments regarding both communities - much appreciated and shared.

 

Maybe the rules will change, maybe they won't who knows either way I believe there is a right way and wrong way to argue a case. Let's hope their funding isn't impacted from any negative publicity that may or may not have happened. And I think really that's where I am coming from - for me it's not a big issue (let's face it I think there are bigger things out there - colleague just told me about a train crash in Spain this morning) but it's the consequences coming out of this. But as I've said that's just my take on things.

 

Oh, just one more thing. You mentioned that about letting the conversation run without interference even when some chose to go for personal attacks instead of discussing the issue - can I ask if you think there should be some ownership or even responsibility in part of the OP to ensure some decorum? Or should that be left to the website administrators. It may be me being naive but I think this makes some sense.

 

Back to work now, lunch is over.

[top4718 838]

I would humbly suggest there are bigger issues to get excited about. But hey, it's your life. Spend your time as you wish.

 

So you have not contributed to the thread

[themagicwand 10]

So you have not contributed to the thread

On the contrary, I think I have contributed in a most positive manner. I have suggested a solution (take a book) and my opinion that the world is full of issues to get upset about, but whether or not you are allowed to use your Kindle on the side of a public swimming bath is not one of them.

 

So, to surmise, my contribution is to relax, get over, move on with your life, and take a book to Zest should you wish to read something. It seems a most simple, some would say elegant, solution.

 

But now, I have a life. Adieu and good luck with your crusade.

[sooz79 10]

HOW ABSOLUTELY ANAL!!!!!! With all the problems in this world and we get issues like this!!!!.....it is apparent that there is the capability to put time and energy into an issue but could it not be something a little more worth while rather than..."I`m not allowed my ebook" boo hooooo, grow up and get a grip!!!

[top4718 838]

On the contrary, I think I have contributed in a most positive manner. I have suggested a solution (take a book) and my opinion that the world is full of issues to get upset about, but whether or not you are allowed to use your Kindle on the side of a public swimming bath is not one of them.

 

So, to surmise, my contribution is to relax, get over, move on with your life, and take a book to Zest should you wish to read something. It seems a most simple, some would say elegant, solution.

 

But now, I have a life. Adieu and good luck with your crusade.

 

Its always the people with boring existences that claim to have a life, I have added a few comments but hardly wrapped myself up in it, isnt that what this forums for? I still think the rules are ridiculous though and its people who "do as they're told" no matter how idiotic that allows them to keep implementing them.