Rupert_Baehr   10 #97 Posted July 21, 2013 Putting two and two together and making nine seems to be a common outcome when discussing Islam and the growth of it..extrapolating a 'simple' population statistic to create fear and panic amongst non Muslims is a frequent tactic. [b]Have you not considered that within a couple of generations the proportion of Muslims in the population will decline, due mainly to integration and the effect of Western influences? [/b] This has been demonstrated in all religious immigrant communities. My own (Caribbean) being a good example..my grandparents were 1st generation, god fearing (devout Christian) immigrants..not one of their offspring is a church goer or would even describe themselves as Christians now.  Like it did in:  Afghanistan Albania Algeria Azerbaijan Bahrain Bangladesh Pakistan ...(I won't go through the whole list)... Saudi Arabia, etc?  There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Muslim countries which have been exposed to Western 'civilisation' have abandoned Islam, or even that Apostasy in those countries is rife.  Your own community (the Afro-Caribbean community) is far too small to be a 'good example' of religious absorption.  How many of your family (or how many family members of others in your community) were victims of 'honour killings' because they elected to abandon the religion of their ancestors? (A religion which, in many cases, those ancestors had been practising for a comparatively short time?)  Your parents' generation can certainly be held up as a shining example of 'how to integrate' - most of them did a quite remarkable job in spite of the shabby treatment they received.  I've no doubt that some immigrants look upon 'integration' as a necessary part of 'improving their quality of life' but I've also no doubt that many feel that - because of what they've heard about 'multiculturalism' - they can simply ignore the culture of the host nation.  There are 'No Go' areas. There have always been 'No Go' areas and there probably always will be 'No Go' areas.  If you know the location of such an area; if you're one of a group to whom that 'No Go' limitation applies ... then don't bloody well go there!  There are plenty of other places where you will be welcome (and you may find that in some of those places, the people who operated the 'No Go' area which upset you are not welcome, too.)  If you want 'multi-culturalism' you can expect cultural differences - and at times, cultural friction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #98 Posted July 21, 2013  ----------------------SNIP--------------------  If you want 'multi-culturalism' you can expect cultural differences - and at times, cultural friction. exactly  and who wins most about creating cultural friction?  extremists  on both sides  whether its muslim fanatics or the EDL / BNP they all win if our communities are at each others throats, both sides get bigger as people get angrier and join Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
LeMaquis   10 #99 Posted July 21, 2013 Come for a little walk with me into Eastwood after dark,Ill walk you in but I wont walk you out.....  I often walk through Broomhall and Sharrow after dark. I have no fear because all the danger you speak of only exists in your head. Now you go and walk down the Falls Road in a Rangers shirt and see how many pieces you're in when you get out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
boyfriday   21 #100 Posted July 21, 2013 Like it did in: Afghanistan Albania Algeria Azerbaijan Bahrain Bangladesh Pakistan ...(I won't go through the whole list)... Saudi Arabia, etc?  There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Muslim countries which have been exposed to Western 'civilisation' have abandoned Islam, or even that Apostasy in those countries is rife.  I'm referring quite specifically to the UK and the Western influences that permeate through into ethnic communities over time, given that the OP is about 'no go' areas in this country. Your own community (the Afro-Caribbean community) is far too small to be a 'good example' of religious absorption. I'm not talking about 'religious absorption', I'm talking about a large group of Christians who came to the UK in the 50's and 60's whose offspring have relinquished religious observance due to British influences, despite this notionally being a Christian country. I'm not sure what you mean by the Afro Caribbean community being a small one, but in pure numbers I guess it's similar to the Muslim one here. How many of your family (or how many family members of others in your community) were victims of 'honour killings' because they elected to abandon the religion of their ancestors? (A religion which, in many cases, those ancestors had been practising for a comparatively short time?) Not quite sure of your point here, but honour killings in the UK are hardly commonplace and the consequences for engaging in such activities are a conviction for murder. Your parents' generation can certainly be held up as a shining example of 'how to integrate' - most of them did a quite remarkable job in spite of the shabby treatment they received. ..and the Asians I lived amongst in 1983 were fine with integrating, it was generally the white folks who didn't want to go near them. I've no doubt that some immigrants look upon 'integration' as a necessary part of 'improving their quality of life' but I've also no doubt that many feel that - because of what they've heard about 'multiculturalism' - they can simply ignore the culture of the host nation. From my experience they're in the significant minority. I have adult and teenage children, the younger one has more Muslim friends than the older one, he in turn has many more than me-they don't bat an eyelid about including their Asian friends in their social activities and likewise their Asian friends with them..clearly those relationships will have a bearing on the development of those Muslims, many of whom I know drink, eat pork and visit the mosque reluctantly, just like we did with church 40+ years ago. There are 'No Go' areas. There have always been 'No Go' areas and there probably always will be 'No Go' areas. I wouldn't feel any more comfortable walking around Shiregreen at night than I would Burngreave, but being intimidated by anyone is a criminal offence, not a reflection on society condoning no go areas. If you know the location of such an area; if you're one of a group to whom that 'No Go' limitation applies ... then don't bloody well go there!  There are plenty of other places where you will be welcome (and you may find that in some of those places, the people who operated the 'No Go' area which upset you are not welcome, too.) Being 'not welcome' is quite different from a no go area. The Falls Road was a real 'no go' area in the 70's, not just somewhere British troops would only encounter harsh language. If you want 'multi-culturalism' you can expect cultural differences - and at times, cultural friction.Nobodies doubting that, least of all me, I've lived through it and come through the other side. There's no reason other communities can't do the same with a commitment to change. ---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 14:30 ----------  Might or could would have been better words. A fundamental part of Islam is the creation of a Muslim society and all the evidence for now shows that Muslim society is expanding in the UK as well as many other European countries. There is little if any evidence that shows the UK's Muslim population will decline in the future, for now its expanding and the evidence appears to show that it will be in the majority in a couple of generations. What do you mean by it's expanding? We need to be careful here when describing Muslims to establish those who are dedicated followers and those who describe themselves as Muslims as they might a race. Jews are a good example of this, I know many people who would say they're Jewish but were last in a synagogue during a their bah mitzvah.  Which isn't and hasn't been the case when it comes to Islam. But Muslims haven't been in this country in similar numbers for as long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Glamrocker   10 #101 Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) I often walk through Broomhall and Sharrow after dark. I have no fear because all the danger you speak of only exists in your head. Now you go and walk down the Falls Road in a Rangers shirt and see how many pieces you're in when you get out. ......But youre not taking me up on my offer...expected Claims are very easy to make, Im giving you the chance to prove me wrong We'll just leave it at that eh...the no go areas remain Edited July 21, 2013 by Glamrocker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #102 Posted July 21, 2013 ......But youre not taking me up on my offer...expected Claims are very easy to make, Im giving you the chance to prove me wrong We'll just leave it at that eh...the no go areas remain just because youve been blown out on your date offer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
LeMaquis   10 #103 Posted July 21, 2013 ......But youre not taking me up on my offer...expected ...the no go areas remain  Why would I want to spend time with a sad bigot like you?  I never said there were no no-go areas. Christianity has made sure there are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Glamrocker   10 #104 Posted July 21, 2013 Why would I want to spend time with a sad bigot like you? I never said there were no no-go areas. Christianity has made sure there are. What about other no go areas Muslim,Asian.Eastern European why move your goalposts ? Sad bigot ? Is that because I dont conform to your apologist views..you forgot racist,fascist EDL/BNP/UKIP member, dont let your penchant for lying get in your way of dodging the issue by having a pop at me..and you call me sad  ---------- Post added 21-07-2013 at 20:31 ----------  just because youve been blown out on your date offer Probably for the best i would have hated to see a grown man scream and beg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
