maxmaximus   10 #49 Posted July 20, 2013 i know its how HE sees it, which is vastly different from how the general populous see it  That's because the Qur'an advocates deception when dealing with non Muslims and people are easily deceived, especially when the truth is hard to bare, as you demonstrate nicely.  ---------- Post added 20-07-2013 at 17:33 ----------  nope just like you lot dont when you tar ALL muslims as evil, but obviously that doesnt count  They all follow the same God and their God advocates violence against anyone that doesn't submit to his will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
retep   68 #50 Posted July 20, 2013 nope just like you lot dont when you tar ALL muslims as evil, but obviously that doesnt count   In that case it's just your opinion, which is worth nothing to most of the general public. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
flamingjimmy   10 #51 Posted July 20, 2013 I think point 2 nails it. If a preacher of whatever persuasion, chooses to evangelise to people of another religious belief, they ask him to desist and he declines to do so then the state is justified in intervening in such circumstances.  Oh yes by all means if someone is consistently harrassing those of another faith with his preaching then the state should stop them.  However this is not what happened, the preachers were told simply that they can't do it at all in a 'muslim area'.  ---------- Post added 20-07-2013 at 18:27 ----------  I didn't believe it to be an national outrage, maybe the hint was the extreme over exaggeration in the post, l really didn't expect you to take it literally and i thought that maybe you'd pick up on the irony, or maybe I was being sarcastic; I certainly wasn't setting up a strawman argument. Oh well.Whoops, my bad, sorry.  Nope, that doesn't suggest that we have the right to preach where we want to, though does it.Yes it does almost, that's certainly how I read it. It could be worded better though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
boyfriday   21 #52 Posted July 20, 2013 Oh yes by all means if someone is consistently harrassing those of another faith with his preaching then the state should stop them. However this is not what happened, the preachers were told simply that they can't do it at all in a 'muslim area'.  I was really referring to a passage in the piece you quoted which said there was a heated argument taking place between two groups of men.  ---------- Post added 20-07-2013 at 18:31 ----------  So if I can hear the call to prayer from a mosque a few times a day, me not being a muslim and objecting this nuisance noise, is the state justified in intervening? It seems you are claiming so. Same goes fro church bells, maybe they should be silenced so non believers don't have to hear it.  Did you read point 2 of Article 9? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Plain Talker   11 #53 Posted July 20, 2013 Jihad is the war against unbelievers which is advocated by Allah, every good Muslim is part of this war which is a struggle to build a Muslim society. That leaves non Muslim three option, submit to the will of Allah, fight against Allah and Allah's followers or just hope it doesn't happen in their lifetime.  Very strange. I thought you were able to read.  Obviously you can't, as you would not be carrying on spouting this Islamophobic drivel after reading my post from the other day explaining that the focus of Islam is on the Greater jihad of the struggle within the self than the style of Jihad you attempt to describe (however inaccurately).  I explained the difference between the greater Jihad and the lesser jihad. but you persist in continuing with your deliberately false / wilfully mistaken descriptions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #54 Posted July 20, 2013 Very strange. I thought you were able to read. Obviously you can't, as you would not be carrying on spouting this Islamophobic drivel after reading my post from the other day explaining that the focus of Islam is on the Greater jihad of the struggle within the self than the style of Jihad you attempt to describe (however inaccurately).  I explained the difference between the greater Jihad and the lesser jihad. but you persist in continuing with your deliberately false / wilfully mistaken descriptions. he doesnt want to understand, thats the flaw, he wants to exist in this warped place in his head where islam is this perfectly bad thing he has where he doesnt give a fig what real muslims believe or say, indeed he knows best and where "moderate" muslims dont exist cos actually they arent muslims...again he knows best Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
maxmaximus   10 #55 Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Very strange. I thought you were able to read. Obviously you can't, as you would not be carrying on spouting this Islamophobic drivel after reading my post from the other day explaining that the focus of Islam is on the Greater jihad of the struggle within the self than the style of Jihad you attempt to describe (however inaccurately).  I explained the difference between the greater Jihad and the lesser jihad. but you persist in continuing with your deliberately false / wilfully mistaken descriptions.  Yes I can read just fine thanks,  Jihad  The literal meaning of Jihad is struggle or effort, and it means much more than holy war.  Muslims use the word Jihad to describe three different kinds of struggle:  A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible. The struggle to build a good Muslim society Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary.  Which part are you having difficulty with?    The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or per-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims. Edited July 20, 2013 by maxmaximus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #56 Posted July 20, 2013 Yes I can read just fine thanks,  Jihad  The literal meaning of Jihad is struggle or effort, and it means much more than holy war.  Muslims use the word Jihad to describe three different kinds of struggle:  A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible. The struggle to build a good Muslim society Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary.  Which part are you having difficulty with?  yes and i believe PT mentioned the first one is the most common, however you prefer to perpetuate the myth that the more extreme version is the norm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ricgem2002 Â Â 11 #57 Posted July 20, 2013 yes and i believe PT mentioned the first one is the most common, however you prefer to perpetuate the myth that the more extreme version is the norm i think to some misguided people it does Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
maxmaximus   10 #58 Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) yes and i believe PT mentioned the first one is the most common, however you prefer to perpetuate the myth that the more extreme version is the norm  Yes it is and to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible means one must obey the other two.  Allah also advocates deception, so one would expect Muslims to deceive non Muslims because such deception is part of being a good Muslim. Edited July 20, 2013 by maxmaximus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Plain Talker   11 #59 Posted July 20, 2013 he doesnt want to understand, thats the flaw, he wants to exist in this warped place in his head where islam is this perfectly bad thing he has where he doesnt give a fig what real muslims believe or say, indeed he knows best and where "moderate" muslims dont exist cos actually they arent muslims...again he knows best  Now, this ^^ is why I want a "Like" button on here! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #60 Posted July 20, 2013 Now, this ^^ is why I want a "Like" button on here! lick me all you like  oh erm like like like i meant  LIKE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...