Coppen estates home insurance penalties?

[bigrbuk 10]

So hopefully my final question...

 

The insurance approval charge is supposedly to cover 10 Jul 2019 to 9 Jul 2020.

 

Our insurance is due for renewal in May. Bearing in mind the current insurance expires before this period, how can we show cover for the period raised? I know the charge is bogus, but would it not have to be a retrospectively cleared "debt"? I can see how they would not deal with this until 2 years down the line, assuming they ever did.

[iwbsheff 10]

28 minutes ago, bigrbuk said:

So hopefully my final question...

 

The insurance approval charge is supposedly to cover 10 Jul 2019 to 9 Jul 2020.

 

Our insurance is due for renewal in May. Bearing in mind the current insurance expires before this period, how can we show cover for the period raised? I know the charge is bogus, but would it not have to be a retrospectively cleared "debt"? I can see how they would not deal with this until 2 years down the line, assuming they ever did.

Presumably that's also the period your ground rent covers? As I think Jeffrey will attest this is all part of Coppen's notices not complying with the letter of the law. I think (disclaimer: this is not legal advice but my remembering of discussions with Jeffrey et al) they're not actually allowed to ask for ground rent in advance, but they do to meet their schedules. We used to get billed for October in March (i.e. financial year end). 

 

You could write back and say, under s.166 of the Commonhold and Leasehold act, please bill me for ground rent correctly when that ground rent is due.  

 

"The date for payment of the ground rent given in the notice cannot be earlier than 30 days from the date notice is given, nor more than 60 days after that date. Overriding this is the provision that the date for payment cannot be earlier than the date set out in the lease itself."

 

https://www.lease-advice.org/article/ground-rent-a-demanding-notice/

 

 

[iwbsheff 10]

1 hour ago, Cyclone said:

Isn't a fake invoice (ie one for which they know there is no legal basis) fraud?

 

For example if I just invoice Copen now (I have nothing to do with them, no relationship at all), for some made up item (perhaps time spent discussing their antics on this forum), then am I not committing fraud?

In one of my letters to Coppen I said I regarded their charges as fraudulent given the content of my lease but with admittedly no idea of the legal basis. Presumably you could pursue them legally but would you be awarded costs?  

 

I wrote to my MP about their antics but he didn't seem very interested in the general issue. 

[bigrbuk 10]

2 hours ago, iwbsheff said:

Presumably that's also the period your ground rent covers? As I think Jeffrey will attest this is all part of Coppen's notices not complying with the letter of the law. I think (disclaimer: this is not legal advice but my remembering of discussions with Jeffrey et al) they're not actually allowed to ask for ground rent in advance, but they do to meet their schedules. We used to get billed for October in March (i.e. financial year end). 

 

You could write back and say, under s.166 of the Commonhold and Leasehold act, please bill me for ground rent correctly when that ground rent is due.  

 

"The date for payment of the ground rent given in the notice cannot be earlier than 30 days from the date notice is given, nor more than 60 days after that date. Overriding this is the provision that the date for payment cannot be earlier than the date set out in the lease itself."

 

https://www.lease-advice.org/article/ground-rent-a-demanding-notice/

 

 

The rent coverage is Sep 2018 to Sep 2019, divided into 2 six month periods. Nothing marries up.

[iwbsheff 10]

3 hours ago, bigrbuk said:

The rent coverage is Sep 2018 to Sep 2019, divided into 2 six month periods. Nothing marries up.

As I understand it (admittedly it's not that easy to read). the notice of cover (under section 164) which releases you of any obligation to use the landlords insurer should be issued within 14 days of that cover being arranged or renewed (in May).

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/15/section/164

 

So remember to issue the notice of cover when your insurance is due to renew and tell Coppen no charge is due. Remind them you already provided notice (reading your previous posts) for last year.  Then remind them again if any further invoices arrive threaten them with court action.

 

Read your lease carefully too - if there's no covenant in there for the landlord to direct insurance, write to Coppen telling them so. They just assume the covenant is there. Tell them again if necessary - it only costs you a stamp after all - and threaten court action for their harassment . Remind them you have the right to quiet enjoyment of your home.  

 

But...I did buy my freehold in the end. We calculated that not having to deal with Coppen when/if we come to sell was worth the money. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by iwbsheff

[bigrbuk 10]

2 hours ago, iwbsheff said:

As I understand it (admittedly it's not that easy to read). the notice of cover (under section 164) which releases you of any obligation to use the landlords insurer should be issued within 14 days of that cover being arranged or renewed (in May).

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/15/section/164

 

So remember to issue the notice of cover when your insurance is due to renew and tell Coppen no charge is due. Remind them you already provided notice (reading your previous posts) for last year.  Then remind them again if any further invoices arrive threaten them with court action.

 

Read your lease carefully too - if there's no covenant in there for the landlord to direct insurance, write to Coppen telling them so. They just assume the covenant is there. Tell them again if necessary - it only costs you a stamp after all - and threaten court action for their harassment . Remind them you have the right to quiet enjoyment of your home.  

 

But...I did buy my freehold in the end. We calculated that not having to deal with Coppen when/if we come to sell was worth the money. 

Long term goal is to buy freehold revision, but the previous owner paid to extend lease and in the process bumped the ground rent right up, which makes it too expensive for us right now.

[iwbsheff 10]

16 hours ago, bigrbuk said:

Long term goal is to buy freehold revision, but the previous owner paid to extend lease and in the process bumped the ground rent right up, which makes it too expensive for us right now.

That's a shame, I sorry that it's not very helpful just to hear "just buy it" if you can't afford it right now. 

 

I did manage to get Coppen to take the insurance charge off my invoice in the end with a few well worded letters. Happy to share the details by PM if it's helpful. Don't give in to them!

[topflat29 10]

On 07/02/2019 at 01:52, bigrbuk said:

Long term goal is to buy freehold revision, but the previous owner paid to extend lease and in the process bumped the ground rent right up, which makes it too expensive for us right now.

What is the unexpired years term for  your leasehold house  and current ground rent ? 

 

The Government has announced its intention to end sale of  new houses  under  leasehold title . 

[bigrbuk 10]

9 hours ago, topflat29 said:

What is the unexpired years term for  your leasehold house  and current ground rent ? 

 

The Government has announced its intention to end sale of  new houses  under  leasehold title . 

Something in the region of 118 years, rent £135. No peppercorn rent for us!

On 07/02/2019 at 10:27, iwbsheff said:

That's a shame, I sorry that it's not very helpful just to hear "just buy it" if you can't afford it right now. 

 

I did manage to get Coppen to take the insurance charge off my invoice in the end with a few well worded letters. Happy to share the details by PM if it's helpful. Don't give in to them!

Yes, by all means, send me what you wrote to them. I've sent them a letter telling them to remove the admin charge which is not applicable under the Act and told them I will send Notice of cover in due course (which will be before the admin charge period starts). At that point I will re-iterate I want it removing and then I'll just have to wait till next Feb to see if they've done it.

[geared 302]

Have you plugged some numbers into any of the online estimators to get an idea of how much you'd be looking at paying??

 

It might be less than you'd thought (and significantly less than Coppen could have quoted you)

 

https://www.freeholdcalculator.com/freehold.php

[kporter229 10]

On 04/02/2019 at 16:47, Jeffrey Shaw said:

Why pay the ground rent, though, as Coppen's stadard demand letter is legally invalid?

Although the demand letter is invalid and doesn't need to be paid, I think I've read somewhere that they would be allowed to accumulate the outstanding ground rent  and claim it in a proper invoice.  Is that correct, or does the fact that the demand letter is invalid mean they can't invoice for it all later?

[geared 302]

1 hour ago, kporter229 said:

Although the demand letter is invalid and doesn't need to be paid, I think I've read somewhere that they would be allowed to accumulate the outstanding ground rent  and claim it in a proper invoice.  Is that correct, or does the fact that the demand letter is invalid mean they can't invoice for it all later?

There's a six year limit on what they can claim