Norseman   10 #49 Posted June 2, 2013 Turkey has a border with Iraq.  We in England have a border with Wales so what difference does it make?  ---------- Post added 02-06-2013 at 22:55 ----------  https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/turkey The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to the Turkish towns of Akḉakale and Ceylanpinar and against all but essential travel to areas within 10km of Turkey’s border with Syria. On 11 May 2013, 2 car bombs killed 51 people and wounded more than 100 in the town of Reyhanli, Hatay Province. See Local Travel - Syrian border.  The FCO advise against all but essential travel to the provinces of Hakkari, Sirnak, Siirt and Tunceli. You should be especially vigilant when travelling in other provinces in south eastern Turkey and in areas in close proximity to the Syrian border.  There is a high threat from terrorism. The PKK has carried out frequent attacks throughout the country. Al Qaeda and other networks have specifically targeted western interests in Turkey. There have also been attacks close to the Syrian border.  I've never actually been to Turkey and never wished to go and I certainly don't wish to go there now. A holiday to Palestine may be safer!  The FCO website is very good for up to date information and can provide information on all countries Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
callippo   10 #50 Posted June 2, 2013 it's just their turn for the 'Arab spring' basically - even though the Turks are not Arabs. They were never going to escape it. All of the Big Five Middle East cities or powerbases, Istanbul/Ankara included, are going to get it. The other four, are Cairo, Damascus, Baghdad, and Tehran. Obviously, the first two have got it in spades, but the other two will eventually join the club.  it's a proper real political storm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #51 Posted June 2, 2013 it's just their turn for the 'Arab spring' basically - even though the Turks are not Arabs. They were never going to escape it. All of the Big Five Middle East cities or powerbases, Istanbul/Ankara included, are going to get it. The other four, are Cairo, Damascus, Baghdad, and Tehran. Obviously, the first two have got it in spades, but the other two will eventually join the club.  it's a proper real political storm.  It will happen eventually. What happens if it spreads to the Turkish bit of Cyprus it could be interesting. What will happen to turkeys NATO membership if they go all Islamist? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
callippo   10 #52 Posted June 2, 2013 that is the main battlefield the big 5. With tiny Israel, and even tinier Cyprus just looking on. If I was Lebanese I would be quite scared now. However they are only small. Long Live Lebanon. They are even smaller, than Israel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Shogun   10 #53 Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) It will happen eventually. What happens if it spreads to the Turkish bit of Cyprus it could be interesting. What will happen to turkeys NATO membership if they go all Islamist?  I don't think they will go full islamic quite the opposite I think they want more western type freedom.the present government has been trying to bring more islamic dogma into the country and that is what has sparked the riots off the people don't want it,Ataturk changed the rules of the government many years ago he said that religion and politics should be separate. Edited June 2, 2013 by Shogun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Anna B Â Â 1,401 #54 Posted June 2, 2013 I don't think they will go full islamic quite the opposite I think they want more western type freedom.the present government has been trying to bring more islamic dogma into the country and that is what has sparked the riots off the people don't want it,Ataturk changed the rules of the government many years ago he said that religion and politics should be separate. Â If you look at the crowds of young people protesting in the Istanbul square they look very European, with lots of women in Western dress joining in. Â I don't think you'd see anything like that in any other Muslim country. They don't want to change, or have their freedoms curbed by hardline Islamic leaning government. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #55 Posted June 2, 2013 If you look at the crowds of young people protesting in the Istanbul square they look very European, with lots of women in Western dress joining in. I don't think you'd see anything like that in any other Muslim country. They don't want to change, or have their freedoms curbed by hardline Islamic leaning government.  Yet the Muslim brotherhood have their feet well under the table in Egypt. I bet a lot of women protesters back in 2011 didn't want that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
johncocker   10 #56 Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) I don't think they will go full islamic quite the opposite I think they want more western type freedom.the present government has been trying to bring more islamic dogma into the country and that is what has sparked the riots off the people don't want it,Ataturk changed the rules of the government many years ago he said that religion and politics should be separate.   ................................  ---------- Post added 03-06-2013 at 05:08 ----------  If you look at the crowds of young people protesting in the Istanbul square they look very European, with lots of women in Western dress joining in. I don't think you'd see anything like that in any other Muslim country. They don't want to change, or have their freedoms curbed by hardline Islamic leaning government.   its been awhile since I've been to turkey but I can remember once you get away from the citys you realise hiow different the people are and you're in an islamic country i don't think turkey's status as "democratic and secular" is as secure as it seems, and is opposed by a sizeable number of its own citizens. There is and always has been a very real struggle between secularists and Islamists; it's not just a few fringe loonies unfortunately. The idea of a secular government was hard-fought and won by Ataturk back in the 20s, in opposition to religious forces, and is by no means univerally accepted. There are many who would happily turn back the clock on both secularism and democracy, and there are legitimate fears that the current government is seeking to impose Islamism through stealth.   I think the people in the citys have a right to be worried, when you see the non-secular moves (such as the legislation on alcohol,women's rights, etc,Erdoğan accused Atatürk of being a drunkard:roll:)which liberal Turks are quite rightly identifying as the thin end of a very dangerous, illiberal and ultimately Islamist wedge.... Edited June 3, 2013 by johncocker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
banjodeano   31 #57 Posted June 3, 2013 Turkey has a border with Iraq.  We in England have a border with Wales so what difference does it make? ---------- Post added 02-06-2013 at 22:55 ----------   I would rather have a border with Iraq than Wales :hihi: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
XXTickerXX   10 #58 Posted June 3, 2013 Nothing like a stroll minding your own business...oh wait...  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3f2_1370203159  ---------- Post added 03-06-2013 at 11:38 ----------  LOLOLOLOL  Syrian Government Having some fun with Turkey  Syria issues travel warning for Turkey Syrian authorities, battling a rebel uprising in which 80,000 people have been killed, has advised citizens against travel to neighbouring Turkey on safety grounds.  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a5a_1370249434 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
WeX Â Â 10 #59 Posted June 3, 2013 I don't think they will go full islamic quite the opposite I think they want more western type freedom.the present government has been trying to bring more islamic dogma into the country and that is what has sparked the riots off the people don't want it,Ataturk changed the rules of the government many years ago he said that religion and politics should be separate. Â It was mainly the young who protested in Egypt but they now have an Islamic President etc. You could say the Islamic hijack these situations or the protesters run out of steam and fail to field any credible candidates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Guest   #60 Posted June 3, 2013 Modern democracy is not mob rule, it does not consist of just doing whatever the majority wants. Minority groups must be protected from the tyranny of the majority. Secularism is vital for a modern functioning democracy, it is the only guarantee of religious freedom. The US founding fathers knew this, that's why they put stuff like that in the constitution, and thank god for that.  It doesn't matter if 51% of the population or 99% of the population want a state religion and religious laws, it cannot be allowed to happen if all of the people are to have freedom, which is one of if not the highest principle/s of modern democracies.  Which itself took influence from the Charter of Medina (Sahifat al-Madina) set by Muhammad 11 centuries earlier.  Both manifestos laid down a democratic federal system of governance. There was no system of police, no army, and no judiciary in place prior to Muhammad laying these foundations.  A major thing in this charter was that Freedom of religion and lifestyle were enforced. It only asked for shared community responsibilities- even to event of outside attacks.  Dr. Robert D. Crane (adviser to Nixon) said that Thomas Jefferson (who drafted the "Declaration of Independence" and contributed to the American constitution) was deeply influenced by Islam. Jefferson's library was burnt down and he lost a copy of the Qu'ran he kept in there- and had it replaced-this is the same Qu'ran Congressman Keith Ellison took his oath on.  Unfortunately-the Muslim world has drifted away from the brilliant example established in Madina. Today these so called 'Islamic' governments do not follow principles of democratic confederation laid down in the Charter of Madina. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...