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Does God Exist?

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3 hours ago, Anna B said:

Actually, they are used, all the time, in the disciplines you mention.

'Probability' is actually a branch of mathematics, and frequently informs science. Much science is based only on theory rather than fact, maybe you've heard of theoretical physics? And scientists don't always get it right either, theories are changing all the time, and being replaced wholesale when a new theory comes along. I'm in no way disparaging what they do, I am a great admirer, but it may surprise you to know that a number of highly respected scientists have professed a belief in God. 

 

I don't quite follow your last sentence. The death camps were most decidedly built by humanity, all be it just a small section of them, and the harm they did was out of all proportion to their number. God had nothing to do with it, it was racist genocide, and it was evil. Most evils in this world are the result of man's inhumanity to man, so why would God interfere? If Men caused it, let them sort it out. 'Freedom of will' remember.

 

As for your 'beliefs' and bets, there must have been a tiny part of you that believed in the possibility of a win, otherwise why bet? That's all I'm saying, - I believe we should be open to the possibility of a God, or a force that is so far unknown but far bigger than ourselves. 

 

Better luck with the gambling next time. 😉

 

 

 

In the  context of describing and explaining  our surroundings, "Belief" and "Faith" do nothing to describe or explain anything. They belong to a time when people were bullied into accepting what they were told.

 

New theories

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

And scientists don't always get it right either, theories are changing all the time, and being replaced wholesale when a new theory comes along. I'm in no way disparaging what they do, I am a great admirer, but it may surprise you to know that a number of highly respected scientists have professed a belief in God.  

Welcome to how science  works, unlike religion, new observations are the driving force behind understanding .

Perhaps you should share your sources with Richard Dawkins who could only find one Christian in several hundred Nobel Prize winners in the sciences

I find it odd that you refer to "scientists" as "them",  what sets them apart, what defines a "them"? 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On ‎18‎/‎04‎/‎2020 at 01:21, Anna B said:

What drives us? Why are other animals seemingly incapable of it? Why are we the only creature to sense our own mortality? Or that something lies beyond?

 

In spite of years of science there are many things/questions that defy explanation, that is what I mean by beyond.

What happened before the Big Bang? Where does matter come from? How many dimensions are there? What is the purpose of 'Dark' matter? What makes us Human? What is consciousness? Do we have a soul/ spirit / connection to something bigger than ourselves? Why are some are profoundly aware of it and others not? What is the power of the mind, and where does it come from? What about all things psychic, paranormal and supernatural: (taken seriously enough to be investigated by the military,?) What happens after death?  

The answer to most questions of that kind is either "We don't know (yet)" or "There is no answer to that question because it is a meaningless question".

 

The best entry point for the latter point of view is still Language, Truth and Logic, which I recommend to you.  Don't be daunted, it's a much easier read than most philosophy books.

 

[Incidentally, you know you're a philosophy geek if your first thought on seeing Nigella Lawson is "That's A.J. Ayer's stepdaughter".]

Edited by CaptainSwing

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5 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

The answer to most questions of that kind is either "We don't know (yet)" or "There is no answer to that question because it is a meaningless question".

 

The best entry point for the latter point of view is still Language, Truth and Logic, which I recommend to you.  Don't be daunted, it's a much easier read than most philosophy books.

 

[Incidentally, you know you're a philosophy geek if your first thought on seeing Nigella Lawson is "That's A.J. Ayer's stepdaughter".]

I don't think they're meaningless questions. They are the sort of questions that drive us on. 

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On 18/04/2020 at 20:55, CaptainSwing said:

Why would a benevolent God not interfere?  Why would He give us free will knowing that it would lead to Auschwitz?

 

Given the choice between Auschwitz and not having free will, I'd choose option 2.

If we don't have free will we become more robot than human. I'd say it was one of the defining characteristics of being human, to be able to make our own choices, ultimately between good and bad. But having  been given that freedom to make our own choices we have no right to expect God, benevolent or otherwise, to bale us out when we screw up.  

 

Sadly Auschwitz in not an exception, there have been plenty of other examples of man's inhumanity to man, both large and small, but also many exceptional and wonderful examples of bravery, altruism, kindness and love. We just have to decide which side we're on.

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25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

If we don't have free will we become more robot than human. I'd say it was one of the defining characteristics of being human, to be able to make our own choices, ultimately between good and bad. But having  been given that freedom to make our own choices we have no right to expect God, benevolent or otherwise, to bale us out when we screw up.  

 

Sadly Auschwitz in not an exception, there have been plenty of other examples of man's inhumanity to man, both large and small, but also many exceptional and wonderful examples of bravery, altruism, kindness and love. We just have to decide which side we're on.

Maybe we are just capable of that as a species.

 

why would a god say - im in charge - but do what you want?

 

i don’t know the answer - and id never run down anyone who believes in god because sometimes when I’ve been in a bad way I still say “help me out god” so I suppose something inside me hopes there’s someone who can do something is listening. 

I suppose everyone wants to know there’s something - because it’s impossible to explain otherwise - maybe we’re just lucky.

 

maybe we’re just a conscious being in a big wave of weirdness thats going on and have somehow managed to think about it a bit but never understand it and maybe in millions of years someone else or some other species will.

 

it would be really weird if in the small

amount of time we have been on the planet we’d all found a different god that was the true god.

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3 hours ago, Anna B said:

I don't think they're meaningless questions. They are the sort of questions that drive us on. 

If you get the chance to read the book I linked to, you will understand why they might be considered meaningless.  After all, it would be a bit arrogant to close your mind to that possibility, wouldn't it?

 

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

If we don't have free will we become more robot than human. I'd say it was one of the defining characteristics of being human, to be able to make our own choices, ultimately between good and bad. But having  been given that freedom to make our own choices we have no right to expect God, benevolent or otherwise, to bale us out when we screw up.  

If you gave a three-year-old a box of matches so that they could start a jolly camp fire, but they ended up burning down the house instead, who would be responsible for that?  Would you intervene to stop them?

 

To repeat, given the choice I'd choose no free will over Auschwitz - that's just not a price worth paying in my book.  We could always have been given the illusion of free will.  [In fact, who's to say that we haven't?]

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Anna B said:

I don't think they're meaningless questions. They are the sort of questions that drive us on. 

Religion and philosophy have answered those questions over and over again and in many ways and with certainty.

There are many  churches, chapels, websites, TV and Radio channels etc. that can give you the truth.

 

If you are not happy with the answers provided you could look elsewhere for alternatives and there are plenty with loads of views.

 

You might find one that is based on a accumulation of observations and explanations over many thousands of years  which fit  in with other many other sets of observations and explanations to create a picture of what is known.

If an explanation doesn't fit in with the rest then it must be investigated and resolved and it may be that other explanations have to change.

The picture becomes clearer, brighter and deeper and indicates where to look next and the need for "faith" and "belief" will continue to recede.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Annie Bynnol

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Nobody knows for certain whether God exists, nobody has proved he doesn't for sure. But, as I said to an agnostic friend of mine, surely it's wise not to annoy him too much just to be on the safe side ! 

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6 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

Nobody knows for certain whether God exists, nobody has proved he doesn't for sure. But, as I said to an agnostic friend of mine, surely it's wise not to annoy him too much just to be on the safe side ! 

This argument is called 'Pascal's wager'.

As it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist, there always remains the tiniest chance/possibility that a god might give you a hard Being a hypocrite and accepting a god reduces your chance of no change or the suffering the wrath of the vengeful god from 50/50 to 1 in 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Regarding Pascal's wager, you can't choose to believe something you don't believe.  You can only act as if you believed it - something that an omniscient Deity would presumably see straight through (though fortunately His earthly representatives can't always, something that has saved millions of people living under theocracies from painful deaths over the centuries).

 

I am sure there is more rejoicing in Heaven over one person who has used their God-given faculties for critical thinking, in good faith, to arrive at an atheist position, than there is over a million who "believe" just because they have been told to.  Especially if they have been told to or else.

Edited by CaptainSwing

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Posted (edited)

Does God exist? 

 

Slightly different angle to the question? 

 

1. Does it REALLY matter if God exists or not, except to the individual?  

 

2. If God exists in the individual, why the need for organised religion? 

 

3. Why in the 21st century, do some feel the need for a God or to believe in a God? 

 

Edited by Baron99

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2 hours ago, Baron99 said:

3. Why in the 21st century, do some feel the need for a God or to believe in a God? 

 Insecurity and the lack of belief and confidence in oneself.

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