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Does God Exist?

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6 minutes ago, RootsBooster said:

Your answer is a little convoluted,  are you saying it's Islam?

Yes- that is where it led him to (his questions, seeking meaning etc)

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17 hours ago, RootsBooster said:

So...

Like I said,  what does he actually believe in?

(And what was he before the age of 14?)

What makes you think we have a purpose?

And what lies beyond what?

We have to have a purpose or we become nihilistic, and life loses its meaning. That can be a personal purpose or a universal purpose, but a purpose nevertheless. It appears to be essential to our mental wellbeing,

 

Ever since we came down out of the trees we have had a burning curiosity to search, discover and learn; about life, the universe, everything.  This is far more than idle mental musings, we are prepared to spend billions on it, Astronomy, Space, the Hadron Collider, without any obvious rewards other than scientific exploration. What drives us? Why are other animals seemingly incapable of it? Why are we the only creature to sense our own mortality? Or that something lies beyond?

 

In spite of years of science there are many things/questions that defy explanation, that is what I mean by beyond.

What happened before the Big Bang? Where does matter come from? How many dimensions are there? What is the purpose of 'Dark' matter? What makes us Human? What is consciousness? Do we have a soul/ spirit / connection to something bigger than ourselves? Why are some are profoundly aware of it and others not? What is the power of the mind, and where does it come from? What about all things psychic, paranormal and supernatural: (taken seriously enough to be investigated by the military,?) What happens after death?  

It's strange to think that by the end of the Victorian era they thought that scientific investigation was at an end; they knew everything. Yet in reality the answers really just gave rise to more and more questions. We now know that we know next to nothing.

 

To me, it seems a bit arrogant to close your mind to all sorts of other possibilities. Including the possibility that the simplest answer might be a divine plan, or universal creator.

Edited by Anna B

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In 3000 years nothing has yet been explained by "...a divine plan, or universal creator."

 

Knowledge, understanding, explanation leading to technology and  invention has expanded exponentially over thousands of years through husbandry, farming, metalwork and trading. 

 

The use of "supernatural", mythology, ancestry, storytelling and "reward" is repeatedly globally and becomes in some cases highly developed. But religion and philosophy have struggled to redefine their role as knowledge, reason spread through education of the masses has resulted in independence of thought and freedom of speech.

 

No longer would people be fobbed off with catch words and phrases like"It's destiny", " its the law", "it's Gods' will", "be told", "divine right", heathen, ghosts, devil, creator, etc. all invented to  keep us in our place or accept control through guilt, economics and violence. 

 

Nothing 'defies' explanation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ants,cows,dogs,mice,rats, lion's, or any other animal or species on this planet has no idea that we humans go to work,watch tv,sit on a leather suite,wear designer clothes,talk on mobile devices basically they have no idea at all but yet in a way they are intelligent in Thier own world it's the same with us humans we can't understand or reason what is around us so we make it up as we go along to make ourselves feel more comfortable the general public 3 thousand years ago thought so differently to how we do now just as they will 3 thousand years in the future in fact when they look back on us they will probably think we weren't intelligent at all.....

 

 

Just a thought......

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If you put your trust in a god,do you have faith in humanity.Humanity can lift itself above a god,where a god failed in such as Belsen and Aushwitz,humanity triumphed by liberating  those that would have surely perished,and that wasnt an act of god,it was an act of humanity,where was god for all the believers of aushwitz,he didnt save their souls they were burned,many while alive,and those not burned alive,had thier organs taken away but where still awake,conscious.Where was their god,or that of the innocent burned alive as witches.........theres no god.

This is a planet,of many planets that will support life in many forms throughout a VAST universe and beyond and in demensions human eyes cant see and never will,we are,as ants are,one of many wonders,across an undiscovered spectrum,we will never discover.

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Civilizations come and go but the vast majority of knowledge is retained, queried and built upon by the next one.

Religions and philosophies come and go and are swept away and vilified by the next one.

 

Our religions have ingrained in us the view that 3 000 years ago that people  were dirty, barbaric, heathen children with no civilization and therefore not entitled to the protection of "civilised" and therefore religious people.  After all a belief in our god was needed to become civilized.

 

So many times the colonization, exploitation and subjugation of peoples was justified through religion. That we were not intelligent 3 000 years ago OR in another part of the world is just another aspect of control.

 

Consider the intelligence needed to organize husbandry, cultivation, metalworking, food distribution, law, mathematics,  astronomy, engineering, architecture etc. These are all aspects of life 3 000 years ago and the evidence persists and will stand on the same timeline as density, circulation, gravity, force, evolution, relativity, electricity, genetics, AI etc, and the increasingly  expanding ability to observe,  explain and use our surroundings.

 

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10 hours ago, staninoodle said:

If you put your trust in a god,do you have faith in humanity.Humanity can lift itself above a god,where a god failed in such as Belsen and Aushwitz,humanity triumphed by liberating  those that would have surely perished,and that wasnt an act of god,it was an act of humanity,where was god for all the believers of aushwitz,he didnt save their souls they were burned,many while alive,and those not burned alive,had thier organs taken away but where still awake,conscious.Where was their god,or that of the innocent burned alive as witches.........theres no god.

This is a planet,of many planets that will support life in many forms throughout a VAST universe and beyond and in demensions human eyes cant see and never will,we are,as ants are,one of many wonders,across an undiscovered spectrum,we will never discover.

Why would you think that faith in humanity is not compatible with a faith in God? You can have faith in both.

 

I agree it was humanity that rescued the people in the German camps, but it was also humanity that created the camps in the first place, and visited the most appalling evils upon the people incarcerated there.

It was a belief in God that sustained many of them while they were imprisoned, in the face of the most appalling testing of faith, (they have testified to that fact,) and God that freed them in death and took them to a better, more glorious and incorruptable place.

 

I see you believe in extraterrestrial life on other planets in the Universe, (as do I,) but there is no proof of that is there? Only supposition and belief.

I don't know which is the most awesome; to think the Universe is full of life, some of it such as us, or that we are all alone in a cold dark void.

Edited by Anna B

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At the  beginning of every season I 'believe' my team is going to get promotion. That 'belief' stems from childhood when anything was possible if I "believed" hard enough. I have very little 'faith' that they will. I have 'faith' in the players and the manager for a while and even 'hope' for awhile.

I , like many 'believed' in February that Liverpool would be Premier League Champions in May(Grrr...).

 

Last week I lost a £5 bet because I had a 'belief' that Brechin was a City.

Last month I had 'faith' that 'supercede' was the correct spelling, cost me £2.

Once upon a time I 'hoped' that Margaret Thatcher wouldn't be that bad. She cost me my job-twice.

 

These words are never used in law, medicine, science, mathematics etc. as they have no value or probability.  They are however by magicians, politicians and those who would seek to tell us and lead us to a better life.

 

It wasn't 'humanity' that built the camps , or organised the trains it was"faith" in an ideology which pedalled "hope" in the "belief" of a promise of a better life.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

At the  beginning of every season I 'believe' my team is going to get promotion. That 'belief' stems from childhood when anything was possible if I "believed" hard enough. I have very little 'faith' that they will. I have 'faith' in the players and the manager for a while and even 'hope' for awhile.

I , like many 'believed' in February that Liverpool would be Premier League Champions in May(Grrr...).

 

Last week I lost a £5 bet because I had a 'belief' that Brechin was a City.

Last month I had 'faith' that 'supercede' was the correct spelling, cost me £2.

Once upon a time I 'hoped' that Margaret Thatcher wouldn't be that bad. She cost me my job-twice.

 

These words are never used in law, medicine, science, mathematics etc. as they have no value or probability.  They are however by magicians, politicians and those who would seek to tell us and lead us to a better life.

 

It wasn't 'humanity' that built the camps , or organised the trains it was"faith" in an ideology which pedalled "hope" in the "belief" of a promise of a better life.

 

 

 

Actually, they are used, all the time, in the disciplines you mention.

'Probability' is actually a branch of mathematics, and frequently informs science. Much science is based only on theory rather than fact, maybe you've heard of theoretical physics? And scientists don't always get it right either, theories are changing all the time, and being replaced wholesale when a new theory comes along. I'm in no way disparaging what they do, I am a great admirer, but it may surprise you to know that a number of highly respected scientists have professed a belief in God. 

 

I don't quite follow your last sentence. The death camps were most decidedly built by humanity, all be it just a small section of them, and the harm they did was out of all proportion to their number. God had nothing to do with it, it was racist genocide, and it was evil. Most evils in this world are the result of man's inhumanity to man, so why would God interfere? If Men caused it, let them sort it out. 'Freedom of will' remember.

 

As for your 'beliefs' and bets, there must have been a tiny part of you that believed in the possibility of a win, otherwise why bet? That's all I'm saying, - I believe we should be open to the possibility of a God, or a force that is so far unknown but far bigger than ourselves. 

 

Better luck with the gambling next time. 😉

 

 

 

Edited by Anna B

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To answer the question, no.

 

I don't need to believe in God to live a moral life as the vast majority of religious people tend to.  I don't need the fear of God to choose my actions based on right and wrong.  I make my choices completely of my own free will.  So who is the better person me or some religious person who needs to be “guided” by some imaginative entity?

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48 minutes ago, Albert the Cat said:

To answer the question, no.

 

I don't need to believe in God to live a moral life as the vast majority of religious people tend to.  I don't need the fear of God to choose my actions based on right and wrong.  I make my choices completely of my own free will.  So who is the better person me or some religious person who needs to be “guided” by some imaginative entity?

People can be either good or bad or a mixture of both. I don't think it depends on religious beliefs, but I do think quite a lot depends on conscience, and an inner sense of right and wrong. Where does that come from?

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3 hours ago, Anna B said:

Actually, they are used, all the time, in the disciplines you mention.

'Probability' is actually a branch of mathematics, and frequently informs science. Much science is based only on theory rather than fact, maybe you've heard of theoretical physics? And scientists don't always get it right either, theories are changing all the time, and being replaced wholesale when a new theory comes along. I'm in no way disparaging what they do, I am a great admirer, but it may surprise you to know that a number of highly respected scientists have professed a belief in God. 

 

I don't quite follow your last sentence. The death camps were most decidedly built by humanity, all be it just a small section of them, and the harm they did was out of all proportion to their number. God had nothing to do with it, it was racist genocide, and it was evil. Most evils in this world are the result of man's inhumanity to man, so why would God interfere? If Men caused it, let them sort it out. 'Freedom of will' remember.

 

As for your 'beliefs' and bets, there must have been a tiny part of you that believed in the possibility of a win, otherwise why bet? That's all I'm saying, - I believe we should be open to the possibility of a God, or a force that is so far unknown but far bigger than ourselves. 

 

Better luck with the gambling next time. 😉

 

 

 

In the  context of describing and explaining  our surroundings, "Belief" and "Faith" do nothing to describe or explain anything. They belong to a time when people were bullied into accepting what they were told.

 

New theories

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

And scientists don't always get it right either, theories are changing all the time, and being replaced wholesale when a new theory comes along. I'm in no way disparaging what they do, I am a great admirer, but it may surprise you to know that a number of highly respected scientists have professed a belief in God.  

Welcome to how science  works, unlike religion, new observations are the driving force behind understanding .

Perhaps you should share your sources with Richard Dawkins who could only find one Christian in several hundred Nobel Prize winners in the sciences

I find it odd that you refer to "scientists" as "them",  what sets them apart, what defines a "them"? 

 

 

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