Margaret Thatcher Thread - Read the first post before posting

[Head first 10]

Not all industry was obsolete. Some was but that didn't mean it all was. Much of it could have been modernised and saved. Some of it had already been modernised.

 

We have gone from taxpayer subsidies for heavy industry to taxpayer subsidies for the finance sector. Our economy is just as unbalanced as it was in the 70s.

 

But the stubborn unions resisted real and proper modernisation didn't they, knowing that it would have meant streamlining and some job loss's?

[MrSmith 10]

She used it to keep public borrowing down as the link says. One of the effects of this was that spending on unemployment benefits could be contained. In that sense it provided headroom to disband the old industries and shift the focus of the economy to the service and finance sectors.

 

Thats a good thing, its public borrowing that is now the problem.

 

 

Now if you think about that extra oil revenue could have been used in a radically different and beneficial way. It could have been used to gradually modernise industry over a longer time frame. For a less destructive agenda.

That could never have happened until the unions had been destroyed because they were an uncompromising bunch with no interest in the country and where more than happy to blackmail the population.

 

One of the other challenges British industry faced was that the soaring oil and gas revenues strengthened the pound creating a tough environment for exporters. Thatcher also chose that moment to cut taxes creating demand in the economy. The strong pound meant cheap imports - domestic British manufacturers could not compete. Also, the oil revenues helped mask a growing balance of trade issue.

 

Put simply, the only time Britain has ever been self-sufficient in oil and gas was 1980 -90, for almost the entire Thatcher tenure. We have nothing to show for it. Norway enjoyed a similar boom and now has a sovereign wealth fund worth hundreds of billions.

 

They could have been the best of times. But nothing was saved. It was all wasted on short-term political agendas.

 

Norway as significantly more gas and oil and a significantly smaller population so not a very good comparison. .

[I1L2T3 10]

Thats a good thing, its public borrowing that is now the problem.

 

 

 

That could never have happened until the unions had been destroyed because they were an uncompromising bunch with no interest in the country and where more than happy to blackmail the population.

 

 

 

Norway as significantly more gas and oil and a significantly smaller population so not a very good comparison. .

 

On the face of it keeping borrowing down was good until you realise what they would have been borroewing for.

 

Norway I'd the best comparison. No other democratic nation in northern Europe had an oil/ gas boom at the same time.

Industry could have been modernised. Not all unions were militant.

[MrSmith 10]

On the face of it keeping borrowing down was good until you realise what they would have been borroewing for.

 

Norway I'd the best comparison. No other democratic nation in northern Europe had an oil/ gas boom at the same time.

Industry could have been modernised. Not all unions were militant.

 

But still not a good one because of the significant difference in population size and oil and gas reserves..

 

But not a massive difference in how our workforce is distributed.

 

Norway Labor force ...............................UK Labor force

 

2.645 million (2012 est.)........................31.9 million (2012 est.)

Labor force - by occupation.....................Labor force - by occupation

 

agriculture: 2.9%..................................agriculture: 1.4%

industry: 21.1%....................................industry: 18.2%

services: 76% (2008 ).............................services: 80.4% (2006 est.)

Edited April 13, 2013 by MrSmith

[I1L2T3 10]

But still not a good one because of the significant difference in population size and oil and gas reserves..

 

But not a massive difference in how our workforce is distributed.

 

Norway Labor force ...............................UK Labor force

 

2.645 million (2012 est.)........................31.9 million (2012 est.)

Labor force - by occupation.....................Labor force - by occupation

 

agriculture: 2.9%..................................agriculture: 1.4%

industry: 21.1%....................................industry: 18.2%

services: 76% (2008 ).............................services: 80.4% (2006 est.)

 

Still the best example. Maggie spent it all. Norway saved theirs.

[MrSmith 10]

Still the best example. Maggie spent it all. Norway saved theirs.

 

There was still plenty left after 1997, and we can expect to be self sufficient for another few years, it would clearly last a lot longer if our population was the size of Norway’s population, but it isn't, so comparing us, with a population of 65,000,000 people, with Norway's population of 5,000,000 is pointless.

 

Current forecasts predict that Britain can expect to remain self-sufficient in oil for at least another 10 years, and selfsufficient in gas well into this century. Over the next 25 years, the industry expects to make 130 new discoveries, and 240 new developments.

Edited April 13, 2013 by MrSmith

[I1L2T3 10]

There was still plenty left after 1997, and we can expect to be self sufficient for another few years, it would clearly last a lot longer if our population was the size of Norway’s population, but it isn't, so comparing us, with a population of 65,000,000 people, with Norway's population of 5,000,000 is pointless.

 

Current forecasts predict that Britain can expect to remain self-sufficient in oil for at least another 10 years, and selfsufficient in gas well into this century. Over the next 25 years, the industry expects to make 130 new discoveries, and 240 new developments.

 

Nice but you seem to have ignored the bit where I said oil and gas. The peak was 1980-90.

 

What did Maggie do with all that revenue?

[MrSmith 10]

Nice but you seem to have ignored the bit where I said oil and gas. The peak was 1980-90.

 

What did Maggie do with all that revenue?

 

UK peak oil production was in 2000

[I1L2T3 10]

UK peak oil production was in 2000

 

I'm talking about oil AND gas. Peak revenue was in the 80s.

 

Maggie spent it all. Didn't save any of it. As Sir Alistair Morton lamented: "she blew it on the dole"

[Hillpig 10]

Most of that seems on the whole like a pretty fair assessment of her international achievements.

 

But Thatcher saved us from being like North Korea? I've read some ridiculous stuff on here but never anything quite as bad as that.

 

Had Scargill, Jones, Scanlon, Foot, Benn, and the rest of the loony left taken over they would have taken us out of EEC and NATO. Our allies would have become the Soviet bloc.

 

Scargill denied his own members a ballot, he campaigned against Walensa and Solidarnosc. Jones was a paid Russian agent, Democracy in this country could have ended. My view is extreme, it is also an alternative possibility that Thatcher saved us from.

[MrSmith 10]

I'm talking about oil AND gas. Peak revenue was in the 80s.

 

Maggie spent it all. Didn't save any of it. As Sir Alistair Morton lamented: "she blew it on the dole"

 

Peak gas was in 2000 at 1200 TWh and we are still producing more gas than in the 80's.

 

Gross production in 2010 was 665 TWh in the 80's it peaked at 450 TWh

[I1L2T3 10]

Peak gas was in 2000 at 1200 TWh and we are still producing more gas than in the 80's.

 

Gross production in 2010 was 665 TWh in the 80's it peaked at 450 TWh

 

Peak revenue MrSmith.

 

---------- Post added 13-04-2013 at 17:06 ----------

 

Had Scargill, Jones, Scanlon, Foot, Benn, and the rest of the loony left taken over they would have taken us out of EEC and NATO. Our allies would have become the Soviet bloc.

 

Scargill denied his own members a ballot, he campaigned against Walensa and Solidarnosc. Jones was a paid Russian agent, Democracy in this country could have ended. My view is extreme, it is also an alternative possibility that Thatcher saved us from.

 

Yeah, you said all this already.

 

---------- Post added 13-04-2013 at 17:08 ----------

 

Thatcher and the north sea revenue

 

http://openoil.net/2013/04/10/margaret-thatcher-and-the-north-sea-oil-bonanza/

 

She spent it all. Didn't save any of it.

Edited April 13, 2013 by I1L2T3