Female President

[mjw47 10]

No I'm not. Harleyman appears to have missed or is having problems with answering my post at 15.

[Harleyman 12]

How did she allow other countries to overtake us in output? Very simple really, if you recall she made a great deal of capitol out claiming prior to a European summit that she was going to 'handbag' them & return in triumph with a rebate. Well she did get a rebate, but I'm sure you're old enough to realize that no one gets 'owt for nowt'.

The quid pro quo for helping her gain credit with the British electorate - which is all politicians care about - was that she agreed to cap industrial output in this country.

In the immediate aftermath of that agreement both France & Italy increased their production to fill the void.

Germany didn't need to do anything different as they were already beating the crap out of all competition.

Where did I say there was a problem with the arms sale to Saudi? My point wasn't about the ethics of arms deals, it was about the ethics of the son of a Prime Minister receiving Millions in consultancy fees from a deal signed by his mother.

What specialist knowledge do you think Mark Thatcher possesses that justified that kind of remuneration?

Care to comment on that specific point?

 

 

I'll have to admit that I wasn't living in Britain during the Thatcher years. My argument is based on the state of Britain economically and industrially prior to her election. British products were losing ground to those made in Europe anyway. The root cause of course being work stoppages, poor labour-management relations, failure to deliver on time to customers. All fatal to any country's industrial capacity.

 

Remember the Morris Minor car of the 1950s? At one time it could have been the best selling small import car in the North American market as there was an increasing demand for smaller cars and the American auto industry was geared at that time to wholly manufacturing cars that were 20 feet long and did 15 miles to the gallon.

US dealers who signed up to market and sell the Morris Minor began to find out that spare parts could not be received on time, deliveries of new cars unreliable and customers becoming increasingly unhappy. Sales fell off very rapidly and the Volkswagen Beetle took it's place and enjoyed phenomenal success in the following years

 

This was just to point out the failings of the British manufacturing industry which had begun years before Thatcher came along.

 

Sorry, dont know anything about Mark Thatcher's dealings so you have me at an advantage there. I did hear that Blair and his wife made a nice little pile of their own while he was PM

[callippo 10]

I sold her son two chairs from Malawi in Cape Town South Africa once although he let his chauffeur or assistant negotiate the price. They are an item often seen in the homes of more affluent South Africans. Thatcher selected the chair he wanted but did not want to talk to me.

[mjw47 10]

Harleyman. fair enough. I agree with you about the state of the country back then. What brought it about was a combination of Union intransigence, totally inept Management & Government interference. An absolute blinding team effort.

 

Yes the Blairs & the Kinnocks are doing tremendously out of the current situation. Actually all the People who had a hand in creating the mess seem to be doing quite well out of it. Only the poor saps who were stupid enough to hold down a proper job are suffering.

 

And the Millions payed to Mark Thatcher from the Saudi deal have never been fully explained.

 

As I said earlier the gender of the President or Prime Minister is unimportant, anyone who can get into that position will be a ruthless egotist with a duplicous streak & a feeling of self entitlement.

With a few honourable exceptions I have no time for any politician of any party or country.

[cuttsie 1,091]

Bush was Governor of Texas at one time if that's considered a qualification for President. Being Governor of a state like Texas or Alaska is a piece of cake since both those states are rolling in money

 

Kennedy on the other hand served in the Senate for many years which IMO made him a better candidiate since he knew how Washington politics worked.

 

Then you had Bill Clinton who had been governor of a small, rather poor southern state yet turned out to be one of the best presidents in decades

The Kennedy,s are some of the biggest gangsters that ever set foot in America .

[Harleyman 12]

The Kennedy,s are some of the biggest gangsters that ever set foot in America .

 

Joe Kennedy was known to have connections with the boot legging racketeers during prohibition and later an association of some sort with Chicago Mob Boss Sam Giancana.

 

The present generation are in no way associated with the underworld as far as I know,

 

Ted Kennedy, the youngest brother was a long serving Senator who championed the cause of the poor and the working class. His death was a loss to many Americans

[mjw47 10]

cuttsie. You need to be careful when passing comments about peoples character. For instance, Winston Churchill was born in Blenhiem Palace & was a direct descendant of the first Duke of Marlborough. He never wanted for anything in his entire life.

Still didn't prevent him from choosing to be a corrupt politician did it?

 

In 1923 he accepted a bribe of £5000 (todays equivilent £300,000 ) from the Burmah Oil company to use his influence on their behalf with regard to Persian Oil- now Iran-in Parliament.

He used that money to purchase his country house Charterhouse which is worth Millions today.

 

At least Joseph Kennedy had the (poor) excuse that he was trying to establish his families fortune.

What was Winnies excuse? Pure unmitigated greed.

[cuttsie 1,091]

cuttsie. You need to be careful when passing comments about peoples character. For instance, Winston Churchill was born in Blenhiem Palace & was a direct descendant of the first Duke of Marlborough. He never wanted for anything in his entire life.

Still didn't prevent him from choosing to be a corrupt politician did it?

 

In 1923 he accepted a bribe of £5000 (todays equivilent £300,000 ) from the Burmah Oil company to use his influence on their behalf with regard to Persian Oil- now Iran-in Parliament.

He used that money to purchase his country house Charterhouse which is worth Millions today.

 

At least Joseph Kennedy had the (poor) excuse that he was trying to establish his families fortune.

What was Winnies excuse? Pure unmitigated greed.

I know all about the Churchills as you do.

Even so is it acceptable for you to pass comment on peoples character but some how I have to be careful.

Chappaquiddick is another little story that is swept under the carpet by opoligists for the Kennedy,s.

[mjw47 10]

cuttsie. Where did I say it was unacceptable for you to pass comment? What I said was that you need to be careful, not the same thing is it?

My point was that if you wish to start throwing mud at someones character there is usually plenty to throw back.

How many people have achieved prominence without having some skeletons in their closet?

As for apologist, no, not really, JFK & his brother Robert were,in my opinion, men who would have gone on to achieve great things if they had not been cut down before their time. Edward made a horrendous error of judgment & payed for it for the remainder of his life. As Harleyman mentioned he went on to become one of the most respected Senators in American history but never lived down that terrible incident.

 

The thing is about the Kennedy's tragedies was that most of the bad things which happened to them came out of the blue with little if any time to react. The two assassinations, Joe juniors death in the War, Kathleens death in a plane crash.

 

They were by no means a perfect family, who has got one? But in comparison with other famous people they don't deserve some of the cheap comments, usually made by people who express an admiration for the likes of Churchill, Thatcher or George W Bush.

 

Personally I have no hero's, at the end of the day we all have feet of clay. It does annoy me somewhat though when people make flippant smartarse comments as you did at post 53 above.

 

Harleyman passed a comment which showed he had some respect for the Kennedy's & you couldn't resist it could you?

[callippo 10]

For instance, Winston Churchill was born in Blenhiem Palace & was a direct descendant of the first Duke of Marlborough. He never wanted for anything in his entire life.Still didn't prevent him from choosing to be a corrupt politician did it?

 

 

pull the other one. Winston's dad was broke. That is why he had to marry a rich American heiress, for her money.

[cuttsie 1,091]

cuttsie. Where did I say it was unacceptable for you to pass comment? What I said was that you need to be careful, not the same thing is it?

My point was that if you wish to start throwing mud at someones character there is usually plenty to throw back.

How many people have achieved prominence without having some skeletons in their closet?

As for apologist, no, not really, JFK & his brother Robert were,in my opinion, men who would have gone on to achieve great things if they had not been cut down before their time. Edward made a horrendous error of judgement & payed for it for the remainder of his life. As Harleyman mentioned he went on to become one of the most respected Senators in American history but never lived down that terrible incident.

 

The thing is about the Kennedy's tragedies was that most of the bad things which happened to them came out of the blue with little if any time to react. The two assassinations, Joe juniors death in the War, Kathleens death in a plane crash.

 

They were by no means a perfect family, who has got one? But in comparison with other famous people they don't deserve some of the cheap comments, usually made by people who express an admiration for the likes of Churchill, Thatcher or George W Bush.

 

Personally I have no hero's, at the end of the day we all have feet of clay. It does annoy me somewhat though when people make flippant smartarse comments as you did at post 53 above.

 

Harleyman passed a comment which showed he had some respect for the Kennedy's & you couldn't resist it could you?

Sorry, you said I should be carefull and this set me wondering maybe I should ignore the gangsterism that is prevailant in the mist of many Country,s Government and so called heroes.

Inc the ones you have mentioned above.

[mjw47 10]

pull the other one. Winston's dad was broke. That is why he had to marry a rich American heiress, for her money.

 

Oh that's OK then, can not blame the guy for deciding to take a bribe.

By the way, when you say 'broke' do you mean in the way you or I would be broke, or do you mean in the way the upper class Aristocracy do 'broke'?

You know, still living in a Mansion,dining at the Savoy & holidaying on the French Riviera, the kind of 'broke' that we all aspire to.

 

Also, that rich American heiress happens to have been Winstons mother, so could you explain to us again how my comment about him not wanting for anything wasn't correct?

 

---------- Post added 09-04-2013 at 12:26 ----------

 

Sorry, you said I should be carefull and this set me wondering maybe I should ignore the gangsterism that is prevailant in the mist of many Country,s Government and so called heroes.

Inc the ones you have mentioned above.

 

No cuttsie you shouldn't ignore it & neither do I. On another previous thread I made the point that the Royal Family obtained their wealth & privilege by virtue of the fact that they were descended from the most successful bunch of Thugs, Thieves & Murderers throughout Europe. Didn't go down too well with some people, but true non the less.

 

The objection I had to your Kennedy comment was that whilst there was an element of truth in it I felt you went over the top somewhat.

If the Kennedy's are some of 'The biggest Gangsters ever to set foot in America' where does that leave Al Capone, John Dillinger, Legs Diamond, Bugsie Segal & Machine Gun Kelly?

In fact Joseph Kennedy senior was the youngest Bank President in American history (yes, I know, but in them days Banking was considered an honourable profession)

He then increased his fortune by taking advantage of one of the most stupid laws ever written, Prohibition. He funded booze transportation over the Canadian border.

The fascinating thing about the Kennedy's is that their family history sounds like a tragedy written by Shakespeare, another guy who has just been revealed as a villain!