E-cigs/E-cigarettes: MegaThread Discussion

[PeteMorris 10]

Well...According to preliminary figures by the ONS, it appears that the 'lure' argument in regard to e-cigs seems to not be reflected in the figures.

 

In other words, it has been argued that e-cigs could be a gateway to lure non-smokers into being addicted to nicotine. But the figures apparently say otherwise....or at least it's a minuscule percentage.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30192181

[biotechpete 10]

Well...According to preliminary figures by the ONS, it appears that the 'lure' argument in regard to e-cigs seems to not be reflected in the figures.

 

In other words, it has been argued that e-cigs could be a gateway to lure non-smokers into being addicted to nicotine. But the figures apparently say otherwise....or at least it's a minuscule percentage.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30192181

 

My personal interpretation of the data I have seen in academic studies suggests that there is a small percentage of users <2% for whom it is a gateway to smoking. There have been studies in Europe and the US showing that e-cig users are more likely to be young. In particular study, they show data indicating that in high school kids the rate of smoking has stopped dropping and overall nicotine product use increased last year (mostly due to e-cigs).

 

IMHO, we'll see in the next couple of years the data which shows smoking in under 18s and under 24s on the way up again.

 

---------- Post added 26-11-2014 at 11:51 ----------

 

It's also interesting that the ONS data of about 2000 households shows a much lower level of e-cig use among never smokers than a previous huge european study (1.2%) of >26000 respondents. There's also a fatal flaw to using this data to assess the gateway phenomenon i.e. how many of the current smokers using e-cigs started on e-cigs?

 

I wonder in how many households the parents fill out the responses to the questions and the teenager isn't going to tell their parents their using e-cigs. This might mean that the vast majority of e-cig users who have never smoked are actually young.

Edited November 26, 2014 by biotechpete

[biotechpete 10]

I've not read the thread because I can't be arsed. But do these actually work?

 

They work... in as much as an experienced user will get as much of a nicotine hit from an e-cig as from a traditional one. I am not really sure of the 'giving up' thing though. People say that e-cigs helped them give up smoking, but they are still on the e-cigs so whether it helps you kick the habit altogether I am not sure. Most people I have spoken to really seem to get on OK with them though and they are much better than smoking.

 

One friend of mine went back to smoking as she was cutting down. She couldn't get a liquid with low enough nicotine in apparently.

[PeteMorris 10]

My personal interpretation of the data I have seen in academic studies suggests that there is a small percentage of users <2% for whom it is a gateway to smoking. There have been studies in Europe and the US showing that e-cig users are more likely to be young. In particular study, they show data indicating that in high school kids the rate of smoking has stopped dropping and overall nicotine product use increased last year (mostly due to e-cigs).

 

IMHO, we'll see in the next couple of years the data which shows smoking in under 18s and under 24s on the way up again.

 

---------- Post added 26-11-2014 at 11:51 ----------

 

It's also interesting that the ONS data of about 2000 households shows a much lower level of e-cig use among never smokers than a previous huge european study (1.2%) of >26000 respondents. There's also a fatal flaw to using this data to assess the gateway phenomenon i.e. how many of the current smokers using e-cigs started on e-cigs?

 

I wonder in how many households the parents fill out the responses to the questions and the teenager isn't going to tell their parents their using e-cigs. This might mean that the vast majority of e-cig users who have never smoked are actually young.

 

Well I suppose statistics can be made to say whatever you like really....But in other threads to do with statistics by the ONS, it's been argued that those stats are right....I wouldn't agree wholly with that...but by and large they tend to be.

 

On your point of how many 'current smokers' using ecigs, started by using ecigs....I'd say very few, as without exception (being and ex smoker and now an ecig user) every single person I have ever come across that uses them, does so in an attempt to give up....I've never come across anyone who has 'started' smoking by taking up ecigs first....But of course that's hardly scientific I know...It's just my personal experience

[biotechpete 10]

Well I suppose statistics can be made to say whatever you like really....But in other threads to do with statistics by the ONS, it's been argued that those stats are right....I wouldn't agree wholly with that...but by and large they tend to be.

 

On your point of how many 'current smokers' using ecigs, started by using ecigs....I'd say very few, as without exception (being and ex smoker and now an ecig user) every single person I have ever come across that uses them, does so in an attempt to give up....I've never come across anyone who has 'started' smoking by taking up ecigs first....But of course that's hardly scientific I know...It's just my personal experience

 

Yes I take the point that ONS data is normally pretty robust, and I regard it as such too. But I don't understand this discrepancy between UK and rest of the world data showing that e-cig users who have never smoked is higher than they say.

 

I don't know many school kids and there are no studies of UK school kids take up of e-cigs. There are some from the US which show that over half of lifetime e-cig users who started in High School initiated on e-cigs rather than tobacco. Equally there is data from the US that shows overall tobacco/nicotine consumption in high school kids is increasing where before it was declining. There's no way to know for certain whether the US is predictive of the UK but I guess it probably is.

[MikeDaMouse 10]

Im sure I read / heard somewhere that they are MORE addictive than fags themselves, Is that true? Have you found them to be?

I stopped smoking using the chewing gum, never tried one of them E-cigs.

[PeteMorris 10]

Yes I take the point that ONS data is normally pretty robust, and I regard it as such too. But I don't understand this discrepancy between UK and rest of the world data showing that e-cig users who have never smoked is higher than they say.

 

I don't know many school kids and there are no studies of UK school kids take up of e-cigs. There are some from the US which show that over half of lifetime e-cig users who started in High School initiated on e-cigs rather than tobacco. Equally there is data from the US that shows overall tobacco/nicotine consumption in high school kids is increasing where before it was declining. There's no way to know for certain whether the US is predictive of the UK but I guess it probably is.

 

Well....personally would rather, if someone is determined to smoke/vape it be vaping....I think pretty much it's agreed that it's far less harmful than actually smoking....(I know this from personal experience)....

 

Let's not forget kids lie!.....hahaha

 

---------- Post added 26-11-2014 at 13:18 ----------

 

Im sure I read / heard somewhere that they are MORE addictive than fags themselves, Is that true? Have you found them to be?

I stopped smoking using the chewing gum, never tried one of them E-cigs.

 

I couldn't really say....I suppose it depends what strength you get....presumably the stronger the strength...the more nicotine you intake and so the circle continues.

 

It's a matter of being selective and having a plan to reduce the strength....I guess if you 'start' on the strongest...it may well be 'well' above the strength you would normally smoke in a 'proper' cigarette...So in that way, it may well be 'more' addictive.

 

You may well find that if someone selects a strength that is waaay above their 'normal' they simply can't handle it anyway....so it's really kind of self levelling.

[Gazza58 10]

I've not read the thread because I can't be arsed. But do these actually work?

Only thing thats ever worked for me,and it was easy.

[spir 10]

More city councils are considering ban e-cigarettes to youth and in public places! And some of them are talking about adding a tax on these products. I think it is ok to restrict e-cigarette to youth, but the tax on e-cigarette products may increase the price, people may be force to back to tobacco! How do you think about it?

[Carmen. 14]

I don't understand this thread.

An addiction, to anything is similar to a seizure of sorts.

[Phanerothyme 12]

They work... in as much as an experienced user will get as much of a nicotine hit from an e-cig as from a traditional one. I am not really sure of the 'giving up' thing though. People say that e-cigs helped them give up smoking, but they are still on the e-cigs so whether it helps you kick the habit altogether I am not sure. Most people I have spoken to really seem to get on OK with them though and they are much better than smoking.

 

One friend of mine went back to smoking as she was cutting down. She couldn't get a liquid with low enough nicotine in apparently.

 

She didn't look hard enough, plenty of 0% liquids are available.

 

Habits are fine, if they're not dangerously toxic. The problem with a smoking habit are obvious. The problems with a vaping habit are less pronounced, by far.

[onewheeldave 22]

More city councils are considering ban e-cigarettes to youth and in public places! And some of them are talking about adding a tax on these products. I think it is ok to restrict e-cigarette to youth, but the tax on e-cigarette products may increase the price, people may be force to back to tobacco! How do you think about it?

 

If they do tax it they're idiots. Addicted smokers need all the reasons going to fight the addiction- the fact that vaping is cheaper than using cigarettes is a substantial reason, taxing directly attacks it.

 

The councils should focus on public health, not scrounging yet more bits of cash from people who are helping to improve public health i.e. smokers trying to switch to vaping.