Jump to content
We’re excited to announce the forum is under new management! Click here for details.

Taxi drivers operating vehicles licensed elsewhere?

Recommended Posts

Does anyone know the legal position of getting into a different area licensed taxi when you have phoned through to a Sheffield taxi firm??

 

Network Taxis have predominately been licensed by N E Derbyshire as was based in Dronfield before moving to Meadowhead. But recently there have been cars licensed by Gedling Council (Notts), West Lindsey Council (Lincs) and Derbyshire Dales operating under Network Taxis.

 

Say if an accident was to happen or you were to make a complaint about a driver would say Gedling Council take it seriously as the car was operating outside their area?????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone know the legal position of getting into a different area licensed taxi when you have phoned through to a Sheffield taxi firm??

 

Network Taxis have predominately been licensed by N E Derbyshire as was based in Dronfield before moving to Meadowhead. But recently there have been cars licensed by Gedling Council (Notts), West Lindsey Council (Lincs) and Derbyshire Dales operating under Network Taxis.

 

Say if an accident was to happen or you were to make a complaint about a driver would say Gedling Council take it seriously as the car was operating outside their area?????

 

Good observation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried googling, to no avail... well nothing concrete to link to

 

The impression I'm getting is that you have to be licensed to pick up in the area you're picking up in, so no, cabs from other areas shouldn't be picking up. Presumably they can set down though...

 

... but then I came across this: http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=501&theme=mobile . Does that mean a passenger wishing to travel from one zone to another has to get out and find another cab?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone know the legal position of getting into a different area licensed taxi when you have phoned through to a Sheffield taxi firm??

 

Network Taxis have predominately been licensed by N E Derbyshire as was based in Dronfield before moving to Meadowhead. But recently there have been cars licensed by Gedling Council (Notts), West Lindsey Council (Lincs) and Derbyshire Dales operating under Network Taxis.

 

Say if an accident was to happen or you were to make a complaint about a driver would say Gedling Council take it seriously as the car was operating outside their area?????

 

Each local authority licenses hackney cabs (taxis) and private hire vehicles to operate in their own area, which covers journeys which originate and terminate in their own locality (e.g., the rail station to home, home to a club, bar, theatre, etc.), or which may terminate further away, e.g., from your doorstep to an airport.

 

In recent times there has been a test case in the courts which established that someone wanting to hire a licensed vehicle was not prevented from hiring a vehicle licensed by another local authority.

 

This has led to a spate of vehicles licensed by other local authorities operating in Sheffield. What some operators do is to provide a free phone number and/or plaster a locality with their contact number, then when a caller rings for a licensed vehicle, they send a vehicle from 'over the border'.

 

The vehicles, licensed by other local authorities, are usually stationed just across the border from Sheffield, but within easy reach of a pick-up.

 

It remains illegal for a licensed private hire vehicle to pick up a fare if hailed to stop, as all journeys must be booked in advance. Any licensed private hire driver who picks up a fare that has not been pre-booked is breaking the law because they will not have insurance cover. Travel in any such vehicle at your own risk!

 

A hackney cab (i.e., a taxi), can legally pick up a fare in the street without being pre-booked. A taxi will, in all such circumstances, display a light saying 'For Hire'.

 

If you wish to make a complaint about a licensed vehicle, it should always be sent to the local authority that licensed the vehicle (details of which are always displayed on the plate at the back of the cab). That local authority should investigate your complaint even if the vehicle was operating somewhere else at the time.

 

I hope this information is of help to you.

 

 

NB redrobbo is the chair of Sheffield City Council Licensing Committee.

Edited by redrobbo
Corrected several typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so basically, the authorities which chose to continue to limit the number of licences issued are being undermined

 

Does that include Sheffield, RR?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<snip> In recent times there has been a test case in the courts which established that someone wanting to hire a licensed vehicle was not prevented from hiring a vehicle licensed by another local authority.

 

This has led to a spate of vehicles licensed by other local authorities operating in Sheffield. <snip>

 

I foresee some interesting meetings in the near future for you :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so basically, the authorities which chose to continue to limit the number of licences issued are being undermined

 

Does that include Sheffield, RR?

 

It's not solely a question that authorities that have a limitation on the number of licensed vehicles which can operate in their area (such as Sheffied City Council) being undermined by this fairly recent legal ruling.

 

It's also the case that each licensing authority makes their own determination on whether to grant a license to an applicant. The test is whether the applicant is a 'fit and proper person' to hold a license.

 

As chair of Sheffield City Council Licensing Committee I am well aware that there are a number of applicants that are refused a license in Sheffield, yet some of these drivers are already licensed by another local authority - or successfully apply for a license with another local authority after being refused one by Sheffield.

 

Now, I'm not saying that all drivers licensed by other local authorities aren't 'fit and proper' people to drive - as they've clearly been licensed to drive by another local authority. However, there appear on occasions to be differential standards operating by which an applicant is judged to be a 'fit and proper person'. The standards that the Licensing Committee Members apply in Sheffield are high - and they need to be in order that the travelling public can have confidence in the person behind the wheel.

 

Another factor to take into consideration is that 'over the border' operators are potentially taking away the livelihood of Sheffield licensed drivers. I must seem odd to many folk, including the JJRB, that drivers licensed by local authorities as far away as West Lindsey (Lincs), Gedling (Notts) and Derbyshire Dales (Derbys) apparently find it sufficiently lucrative to want to ply for business in Sheffield.

 

---------- Post added 04-03-2013 at 01:43 ----------

 

I foresee some interesting meetings in the near future for you :)

 

It is never uninteresting sitting on the Licensing Committee my friend. :)

 

Indeed, there are councillors currently queuing up to sit on the Licensing Committee following the council AGM in May.

 

But then that's hardly surprising when you consider that three times a week the Licensing Committee deals with sex, drugs and alcohol .... as well as taxis! :wow:

Edited by redrobbo
There is, apparently, not 2 but only 1 'r' in 'hardly'!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any licensed private hire driver who picks up a fare that has not been pre-booked is breaking the law because they will not have insurance cover. Travel in any such vehicle at your own risk!

 

 

NB redrobbo is the chair of Sheffield City Council Licensing Committee.

 

This concerns me as it's wrong. They will not have insurance cover for the damage to their own vehicle.

 

Without going into detail as to the process, which I can if you like, the law does not stop an innocent third party recovering damages because a driver has breached his policy. European directives prevent that.

 

Injury to third parties including passengers remains enforceable pursuant to the Road Traffic Act and article 75 of the MIB articles of association.

 

NB Moosey has been a personal injury lawyer for the last 15 years.

 

 

 

Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android

 

---------- Post added 04-03-2013 at 06:58 ----------

 

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by redrobbo

 

Any licensed private hire driver who picks up a fare that has not been pre-booked is breaking the law because they will not have insurance cover. Travel in any such vehicle at your own risk!

 

 

NB redrobbo is the chair of Sheffield City Council Licensing Committee.

 

This concerns me as it's wrong. They will not have insurance cover for the damage to their own vehicle.

 

Without going into detail as to the process, which I can if you like, the law does not stop an innocent third party recovering damages because a driver has breached his policy. European directives prevent that.

 

Injury to third parties including passengers remains enforceable pursuant to the Road Traffic Act and article 75 of the MIB articles of association.

 

NB Moosey has been a personal injury lawyer for the last 15 years.

 

 

 

Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android

 

To clarify, I agree they're breaking the law. As a passenger however you are not prevented from recovering damages. Volenti defences are irrelevant.

 

 

 

Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This concerns me as it's wrong. They will not have insurance cover for the damage to their own vehicle.

 

Without going into detail as to the process, which I can if you like, the law does not stop an innocent third party recovering damages because a driver has breached his policy. European directives prevent that.

 

Injury to third parties including passengers remains enforceable pursuant to the Road Traffic Act and article 75 of the MIB articles of association.

 

NB Moosey has been a personal injury lawyer for the last 15 years.

 

 

 

Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android

 

---------- Post added 04-03-2013 at 06:58 ----------

 

 

To clarify, I agree they're breaking the law. As a passenger however you are not prevented from recovering damages. Volenti defences are irrelevant.

 

 

 

Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android

 

 

Recover of personal injuries due to an unlawful act, by the driver is far harder than claiming off legitimate insurance for an accident, ? You would need to sue the driver for this go through different Courts. The driver will invaribly pick up 6 points minimum and a fine on his and more likely than not loose his licence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Recover of personal injuries due to an unlawful act, by the driver is far harder than claiming off legitimate insurance for an accident, ? You would need to sue the driver for this go through different Courts. The driver will invaribly pick up 6 points minimum and a fine on his and more likely than not loose his licence.

 

It's not hard at all. The law deliberately makes it straight forward so as not to prejudice innocent third parties.

 

I'm happy to explain the process.

 

Under normal circumstances, if you're a passenger, and the driver crashes, you can recover your damages from the driver, if they're at fault. There are very, very few exceptions where you wouldn't recover as an innocent passenger.

 

In the index cases, where the driver has breached his insurance policy, you continue to act in the same way. Your claim goes to the driver's insurance. They will respond, and tell you the policy holder has breached. They then do one of two things.

 

They will either insist on you getting a judgment against the driver, which is fairly quick and easy as a passenger, or they will not even bother with the judgment, and just compensate accordingly. Most often, it's option B, as it's cheaper and less hassle.

 

The Road Traffic Act is very clear on compulsory insurance, as are the European Directives.

 

Whilst the actions of the driver are criminal, and will likely, as you say, result in him losing his license, that's his own fault. He'll have to pay for his own car as well, and will be asked by his insurers to pay back whatever they've paid out to the third party, but that's his own fault for breaking the law.

 

The fact remains, despite the Council frequently saying that "you take your life into your own hands" and "You won't be insured" if you get into a cab from another area, or one plying for hire, it's legally wrong, and shouldn't be offered as advice. The innocent third party will always be able to recover losses.

 

If it helps, I can happily post you a letter I had from Churchill, on a similar case that I'm dealing with at the moment. I can black out the names etc, but the letter will show that they deal with these cases as RTA insurers because they have to. (That case was a taxi driver letting his brother drive, in case you're interested.) I've had lots of these in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now, I'm not saying that all drivers licensed by other local authorities aren't 'fit and proper' people to drive - as they've clearly been licensed to drive by another local authority. However, there appear on occasions to be differential standards operating by which an applicant is judged to be a 'fit and proper person'. The standards that the Licensing Committee Members apply in Sheffield are high - and they need to be in order that the travelling public can have confidence in the person behind the wheel.

 

As I've said on SF previously, I'm quite pleased, both as a customer and as a cyclist, with the quality of Network Taxis' driving. I always recommend that company to others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going back to the origins of this debate Stockton V Fiddler in 2010 is the case that states that a hackney carriage can work as a private hire anywhere in the country. This has long been the case but not many "good" private hire operators like to do this as the vehicle, and driver have no enforcement and the public have difficulties complaining about a driver and vehicle that is licensed some way away. The operator would have more to lose then the driver.

 

We may see some end to this type case when the law commission and the Government have looked at the new proposals for Taxi and Private Legislation - of which the LC proposal should be available within the next few months.

 

To Moosey I have never stated on here that a third party is uninsured, but that the Driver may not be insured for the purpose he has used the vehicle. ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.