Lap dancing Women not sex objects Demonstration outside townhall today

[gnvqsos 10]

Some of the opinions on here, to me, are baffling.

 

Would I be happy with a sister, girlfriend. Mother, daughter etc working in a lap dancing place? No I wouldn't be happy.

 

Would I work in a male version? If I had the body yes seriously though, yes I would if my normal job was no longer available and I found it hard to find a decent paid employment.

 

I have been to strip bars in the past, not much a fan of them myself, but its been for like birthdays/stag do's etc.

the girls that work there, that is their choice.... Why should we restrict them of a chance of a good wage?

 

Got to agree with the points that people 'sell' their body in loads of walks of life.

Models, strippers, celebrities etc. some are more risqué than others.... But if they're happy doing it, then that, for me, is their choice.

 

I see a few people have also done 'hit n run' posts on here, which is sly. If you're going to raise some points that can be challenged, at least respond back.

 

I am afraid your post lacks a clear message Robs.

[sheffbag 229]

Any particular part of my "defence" you wish to elaborate on. I am trying to offer the three people who seem to have a particular view on any lap dancing venue, its clientele and more importantly its workers which is based on no factual evidence the opportunity to actually talk to people in a bid to alter their prejudices.

 

They provided factless opinion, i provided factual evidence to challenge it and was met with stonewall silence or snide comments.

 

My "defence" of a lap dance environment is based on the fact that they dont hurt anyone, no one is forced to go (if people didnt go then places would shut down) people arent forced to work there (yes you will be able to find a few examples of forced working but that also happens in other industries such as field workers, catering establishments, etc. Every norm has an abboration). Yet people are opposed to them with no real grounds yet when offered to be "informed" they would rather put forward a view that everyone who goes to a venue is a pervert, all the dancers are turning tricks and should be sacked and the morals of the world have collapsed without substantiating their views.

 

If you look at the poster who came on here who actually had first hand experience as a dancer then you would see that she is the only person who has posted on this thread who can speak with some authority and knowledge first hand.

 

Since you asked what my interest it i'll reply. I work at a two tier establishment, upstairs where i work is a bar in a town centre, underneath is a linked business (owned by the same person) which is a "lapdance" bar (i would use the term gentlemens club but as i have pointed out previously 30% of the clientele over the opening is female so that would be incorrect) For the record I will state that i have no financial link with the venue, i make no money out of it or have money invested in it but I have spoken to the people who work there and they are no different to you or me. I know the reasons why some of them work there, i see the security and the safe atmosphere that is there (do you think so many women would come if it was full of the "dirty old mac pervert brigade" (as someone described the people who go there) and when i see what i perceive to be ill judged and foundless comments then i will give my view based on my experiences. That is what a forum is for, people to discuss and give different opinions

 

You view my comments as bordering on hysterical yet below are some of the comments thrown around by other people

 

TJC 1 - It's very sleazy and goes against equality, in 2013, having these clubs. The desperate blokes that frequent them are pathetic.

 

PT - Firstly, a lapdancing club, and similar establishments just objectify women, and turn them into nothing more than a pair of bosoms and a bum, and to be gawped at. It's like a moving page 3.

 

PT - Would you want these leering pervs gawping in that way at your partner, your daughter, your sister, your mother?.........Do they warrant being treated in such a vile manner

 

TJC1 - It's part of the problem and another reason why women get assaulted and raped.

 

TJC1 - Intellect does pay the bills. It's preferable to being exploited in seedy meat markets. That's the whole point. (TJC1 is the person who thinks "Stringy" i.e Peter Stringfellow is a class guy yet when challanged on her hypocrisy came back with "dont diss stringy"

 

PT - ... and called "Millie Tant" no doubt WAY to stereotype (this was in response to someone who had said people opposing venues were old, ugly and wore jumpers yet PT's response was to suggest stereotyping yet gives the opinion/stereotype that all men are perverts who go there)

 

Janie 48 - you recognised the business for what it really is,degrading!

 

Janie 48 - Do you honestly believe that those of us who havn't had any connection with those places,are not fully aware of the low opinions some of those male customers have of those women,and how they refer to them

 

PT - It's still objectifying women, to be ogled by pervs

 

Janie48 - i don't need to visit a lap dancing club myself to have a good idea what a place like that is all about.

 

Janie48 - How i formed an opinion on this subject is the same as how i form most other opinions i ask,read and listen.

 

 

And thats just a few from the 3 people i made my offer to, not counting the allegations of rape and violence that happen at all of these venues. No hysteria there is there? Janie's last one is the killer, Janie forms an opinion by reading asking and listening, yet if what they hear is not of their opinion then it is dismissed as incorrect.

 

I countered these with questions, official research and evidence from the police to back it up but im the hysterical one.

 

This thread goes in circles and had died a death,. I hope i've responded adequately to your question and if you want to ask more please pm me or it will just start all over again with the same opinions given.

 

Baggy

[janie48 98]

Any particular part of my "defence" you wish to elaborate on. I am trying to offer the three people who seem to have a particular view on any lap dancing venue, its clientele and more importantly its workers which is based on no factual evidence the opportunity to actually talk to people in a bid to alter their prejudices.

 

They provided factless opinion, i provided factual evidence to challenge it and was met with stonewall silence or snide comments.

 

My "defence" of a lap dance environment is based on the fact that they dont hurt anyone, no one is forced to go (if people didnt go then places would shut down) people arent forced to work there (yes you will be able to find a few examples of forced working but that also happens in other industries such as field workers, catering establishments, etc. Every norm has an abboration). Yet people are opposed to them with no real grounds yet when offered to be "informed" they would rather put forward a view that everyone who goes to a venue is a pervert, all the dancers are turning tricks and should be sacked and the morals of the world have collapsed without substantiating their views.

 

If you look at the poster who came on here who actually had first hand experience as a dancer then you would see that she is the only person who has posted on this thread who can speak with some authority and knowledge first hand.

 

Since you asked what my interest it i'll reply. I work at a two tier establishment, upstairs where i work is a bar in a town centre, underneath is a linked business (owned by the same person) which is a "lapdance" bar (i would use the term gentlemens club but as i have pointed out previously 30% of the clientele over the opening is female so that would be incorrect) For the record I will state that i have no financial link with the venue, i make no money out of it or have money invested in it but I have spoken to the people who work there and they are no different to you or me. I know the reasons why some of them work there, i see the security and the safe atmosphere that is there (do you think so many women would come if it was full of the "dirty old mac pervert brigade" (as someone described the people who go there) and when i see what i perceive to be ill judged and foundless comments then i will give my view based on my experiences. That is what a forum is for, people to discuss and give different opinions

 

You view my comments as bordering on hysterical yet below are some of the comments thrown around by other people

 

TJC 1 - It's very sleazy and goes against equality, in 2013, having these clubs. The desperate blokes that frequent them are pathetic.

 

PT - Firstly, a lapdancing club, and similar establishments just objectify women, and turn them into nothing more than a pair of bosoms and a bum, and to be gawped at. It's like a moving page 3.

 

PT - Would you want these leering pervs gawping in that way at your partner, your daughter, your sister, your mother?.........Do they warrant being treated in such a vile manner

 

TJC1 - It's part of the problem and another reason why women get assaulted and raped.

 

TJC1 - Intellect does pay the bills. It's preferable to being exploited in seedy meat markets. That's the whole point. (TJC1 is the person who thinks "Stringy" i.e Peter Stringfellow is a class guy yet when challanged on her hypocrisy came back with "dont diss stringy"

 

PT - ... and called "Millie Tant" no doubt WAY to stereotype (this was in response to someone who had said people opposing venues were old, ugly and wore jumpers yet PT's response was to suggest stereotyping yet gives the opinion/stereotype that all men are perverts who go there)

 

Janie 48 - you recognised the business for what it really is,degrading!

 

Janie 48 - Do you honestly believe that those of us who havn't had any connection with those places,are not fully aware of the low opinions some of those male customers have of those women,and how they refer to them

 

PT - It's still objectifying women, to be ogled by pervs

 

Janie48 - i don't need to visit a lap dancing club myself to have a good idea what a place like that is all about.

 

Janie48 - How i formed an opinion on this subject is the same as how i form most other opinions i ask,read and listen.

 

 

And thats just a few from the 3 people i made my offer to, not counting the allegations of rape and violence that happen at all of these venues. No hysteria there is there? Janie's last one is the killer, Janie forms an opinion by reading asking and listening, yet if what they hear is not of their opinion then it is dismissed as incorrect.

 

I countered these with questions, official research and evidence from the police to back it up but im the hysterical one.

 

This thread goes in circles and had died a death,. I hope i've responded adequately to your question and if you want to ask more please pm me or it will just start all over again with the same opinions given.

 

Baggy

You will just have to accept that not everyone is as broadminded as you,why should we all have to go along with something just because its considered to be more acceptable in todays society.The girls have a choice of course,but in spite of that i'm inclined to believe some may be vulnerable and quite naive and that is something that does rather concern me.We know now that people turned a blind eye to the behaviour of Jimmy Saville and other men in the eighties and one reason for that is because they didn't want to appear prudish,i know that isn't anything to do with this topic,but i'm just giving an example of how complacency in general can be a bad thing.

 

I've just googled for info about lap-dancing clubs to see if anyone shares my own view,there isn't much against in recent years you will be delighted to know.Even a very critical and cynical article by Amanda Patell was published some time ago,and this one here by a former lap dancer.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/gender.uk

[KAY1961 10]

A friend of my used to be a lap dancer nobody forced her to do it.

She did it purley for the money she made.

before the recession she could earn £1000 in a week end.

[BHRemovals 10]

why not ask thbe dancers if they feel exploited

[Wendyo 10]

Any particular part of my "defence" you wish to elaborate on. I am trying to offer the three people who seem to have a particular view on any lap dancing venue, its clientele and more importantly its workers which is based on no factual evidence the opportunity to actually talk to people in a bid to alter their prejudices.

 

They provided factless opinion, i provided factual evidence to challenge it and was met with stonewall silence or snide comments.

 

My "defence" of a lap dance environment is based on the fact that they dont hurt anyone, no one is forced to go (if people didnt go then places would shut down) people arent forced to work there (yes you will be able to find a few examples of forced working but that also happens in other industries such as field workers, catering establishments, etc. Every norm has an abboration). Yet people are opposed to them with no real grounds yet when offered to be "informed" they would rather put forward a view that everyone who goes to a venue is a pervert, all the dancers are turning tricks and should be sacked and the morals of the world have collapsed without substantiating their views.

 

If you look at the poster who came on here who actually had first hand experience as a dancer then you would see that she is the only person who has posted on this thread who can speak with some authority and knowledge first hand.

 

Since you asked what my interest it i'll reply. I work at a two tier establishment, upstairs where i work is a bar in a town centre, underneath is a linked business (owned by the same person) which is a "lapdance" bar (i would use the term gentlemens club but as i have pointed out previously 30% of the clientele over the opening is female so that would be incorrect) For the record I will state that i have no financial link with the venue, i make no money out of it or have money invested in it but I have spoken to the people who work there and they are no different to you or me. I know the reasons why some of them work there, i see the security and the safe atmosphere that is there (do you think so many women would come if it was full of the "dirty old mac pervert brigade" (as someone described the people who go there) and when i see what i perceive to be ill judged and foundless comments then i will give my view based on my experiences. That is what a forum is for, people to discuss and give different opinions

 

You view my comments as bordering on hysterical yet below are some of the comments thrown around by other people

 

TJC 1 - It's very sleazy and goes against equality, in 2013, having these clubs. The desperate blokes that frequent them are pathetic.

 

PT - Firstly, a lapdancing club, and similar establishments just objectify women, and turn them into nothing more than a pair of bosoms and a bum, and to be gawped at. It's like a moving page 3.

 

PT - Would you want these leering pervs gawping in that way at your partner, your daughter, your sister, your mother?.........Do they warrant being treated in such a vile manner

 

TJC1 - It's part of the problem and another reason why women get assaulted and raped.

 

TJC1 - Intellect does pay the bills. It's preferable to being exploited in seedy meat markets. That's the whole point. (TJC1 is the person who thinks "Stringy" i.e Peter Stringfellow is a class guy yet when challanged on her hypocrisy came back with "dont diss stringy"

 

PT - ... and called "Millie Tant" no doubt WAY to stereotype (this was in response to someone who had said people opposing venues were old, ugly and wore jumpers yet PT's response was to suggest stereotyping yet gives the opinion/stereotype that all men are perverts who go there)

 

Janie 48 - you recognised the business for what it really is,degrading!

 

Janie 48 - Do you honestly believe that those of us who havn't had any connection with those places,are not fully aware of the low opinions some of those male customers have of those women,and how they refer to them

 

PT - It's still objectifying women, to be ogled by pervs

 

Janie48 - i don't need to visit a lap dancing club myself to have a good idea what a place like that is all about.

 

Janie48 - How i formed an opinion on this subject is the same as how i form most other opinions i ask,read and listen.

 

 

And thats just a few from the 3 people i made my offer to, not counting the allegations of rape and violence that happen at all of these venues. No hysteria there is there? Janie's last one is the killer, Janie forms an opinion by reading asking and listening, yet if what they hear is not of their opinion then it is dismissed as incorrect.

 

I countered these with questions, official research and evidence from the police to back it up but im the hysterical one.

 

This thread goes in circles and had died a death,. I hope i've responded adequately to your question and if you want to ask more please pm me or it will just start all over again with the same opinions given.

 

Baggy

 

sheffbags smashed it excellent post - ps it was me who said people protesting were swp, hippie communist types and i forgot to mention were prejudiced and utterly prudish bores who need their pulses checking more often!

[gnvqsos 10]

sheffbags smashed it excellent post - ps it was me who said people protesting were swp, hippie communist types and i forgot to mention were prejudiced and utterly prudish bores who need their pulses checking more often!

 

Those swp,hippy ,communist types are shocking and very quick to type-cast others.

[Cyclone 10]

You will just have to accept that not everyone is as broadminded as you,why should we all have to go along with something just because its considered to be more acceptable in todays society.

Because that's how freedom works.

The fact that you don't like it shouldn't be considered justification to ban it or stop it happening. Nobody is suggesting that you should be forced to go and pay for dancing girls.

The girls have a choice of course,but in spite of that i'm inclined to believe some may be vulnerable

Based on no evidence and a refusal to go and see for yourself.

and quite naive and that is something that does rather concern me.We know now that people turned a blind eye to the behaviour of Jimmy Saville and other men in the eighties and one reason for that is because they didn't want to appear prudish,i know that isn't anything to do with this topic,but i'm just giving an example of how complacency in general can be a bad thing.

So now it's a conspiracy?

 

I've just googled for info about lap-dancing clubs to see if anyone shares my own view,there isn't much against in recent years you will be delighted to know.Even a very critical and cynical article by Amanda Patell was published some time ago,and this one here by a former lap dancer.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/gender.uk

Good. I think that we are better of with less people who call to have things banned on the basis of personal dislike and without evidence of harm.

[gnvqsos 10]

Do you need evidence to show that men who visit such places are a bit daft-surely it is self-evident.You are highly unlikely to see people such as Jarvis Cocker and Danmain Alban but very likely to see characters such as Wayne Makepeace and Spencer Armstrong,both former footballers now reduced to audiences in WMCs.

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

Do you need evidence to show that men who visit such places are a bit daft-surely it is self-evident.You are highly unlikely to see people such as Jarvis Cocker and Danmain Alban but very likely to see characters such as Wayne Makepeace and Spencer Armstrong,both former footballers now reduced to audiences in WMCs.

But that's wholly irrelevant to whether such establishments should be lawful and (if so) which should gain licences.

[CELCAD 10]

Nothing wrong with lap dancing clubs. There are waaaay too many stuck up people who have nothing better to do than whine about minor or irrelevant issues.

[Poultrygeist 10]

eeek