How/what is GKR karate?

[Cyclone 10]

Ok so I used the wrong wording. But it is not trying to scare anyone. If you are in charge the buck stops with you.

You will be asked "Why have CRB checks not being done" If the guilty party are on the records you will be in trouble. You would not have taken reasonable precautions. So not FUD?

 

No, this is not true. There is no legal requirement to CBR check instructors, so the buck stops with any adult that does wrong, not the person that runs the club if they are not one and the same.

[Cyclone 10]

Thanks Protekt, I feel better about it now.

 

 

Now i'm concerned again. Are you saying that i'm not registered as a member with GKR 'head office' or such like?

 

 

I was led to believe there was insurance yet I think i've discovered that it's a fault-based insurance. In a nutshell, this means that accidents are NOT covered. Do you think I might be shouldering some legal responsibility here?

 

I don't trust them anymore, they can wrap anything up and make it look good to us compliant slaves, sorry <ahem> instructors

 

@PeteGKR, i'm not sure of your history but in my region, if you get on the STP you can make brown in 18 months.

 

Most martial arts clubs will require you to take out personal liability insurance, the cost isn't a lot, but it means that you have cover for time off work due to injury, cover for permanent injuries, and legal cover should you negligently injure another student.

Instructors should have a higher level of insurance that mainly covers them for negligence in their teaching and supervising of the class.

[mr_busdriver 10]

Most martial arts clubs will require you to take out personal liability insurance, the cost isn't a lot, but it means that you have cover for time off work due to injury, cover for permanent injuries, and legal cover should you negligently injure another student.

Instructors should have a higher level of insurance that mainly covers them for negligence in their teaching and supervising of the class.

 

 

 

Sorry to appear to be thick, but how does that work? say if I went to a karate class, and someone punched me, does that mean I can sue them?

 

And if I was to sue them, surely my claim would be kicked out, after all, isn't karate about learning to punch someone?

[Cyclone 10]

No it doesn't work like that.

If you get punched as an expected and understood risk of taking part then it's basically tough luck.

If you were practicing an arm lock though, and they deliberately broke your arm, then you could sue them and their insurance would pay out. It's all down to the word negligent.

[mr_busdriver 10]

Ok.....

[baerenfanger 10]

I was once shown (by a GKR instructor) a photocopy of Robert Sullivan's 2nd Dan grading certificate from Kei Shin Kan Karate (now called Kei Shin Kai in Japan). It was signed by Master Masanao Takazawa 8th Dan.

 

I have spoken to people in Australia who trained in Kei Shin Kan (founded by Takazawa who was given authority to train under that name by Toyama Kanken). Sullivan trained under Sensei Masayuki Takasaka in Melbourne. Sensei Takasaka was graded to 5th Dan in 1969. He is still training in Melbourne at Belmore Road, Box Hill under the name Koryu Karate Do- having broken away from KSK Japan. Sensei Uchida 5th Dan is still training in Sydney under Kei Shin Kan as is Peter Walton 4th Dan in Melbourne who no longer trains with Sensei Takasaka. Sullivan achieved 1st Dan in Australia under Sensei Takasaka and then went to Japan where he got 2nd Dan from Master Takazawa. Old home movies of Sullivan training with Kei Shin Kan when Master Takazawa visited Australia in or about 1974 with his senior 5th Dan students, still exist. They are the most incredible movies, because when people like Sullivan were babies in karate terms, here were 5th Dan and 8th Dan (Master Takazawa) Japanese displaying amazing karate.

 

Now Sullivan calls himself 7th Dan. Well I ask you, if you could learn from Sullivan or the Japanese instructor who is the real deal, who still trains in Melbourne, Uchida in Sydney - who would you go to?

[HCrown 10]

had one of these GKR guys come round my house a while back, I'd only been back a week from spending 18 months at Siping City in Jilin... Prior to that I'd been Thaiboxing for a few years.. Me being quite talkative I got chatting to the guy, who then suggesting "if I fancy learning something a little less dated I should give GKR a try".........

 

At the point the eyebrow was raised and the front door closed quite firmly...

[vigaz 10]

I found this thread on google and after reading a few pages (there are a lot) I decided I would like to join in.

 

I am 40 years old and trained in Wado Ryu when I was 18. I loved it and I think after about 2-3 years I got to 4th Kyu. Life sort of took over and I didn't train for a long time. I do not claim to be an expert in any way, shape or form.

 

About 4 years ago, I had a knock on the door from someone from GKR. I always wanted to get back into karate and this was just a push I needed. The whole family joined though I am the only one who carried on after my husband and I divorced.

 

There are a lot of arguments on here for and against GKR. Personally I really love GKR. There are a lot of similarites to Wado Ryu and some obvious differences which I expect come from the other styles Robert Sullivan trained in. Doesn't everything change over time? I am sure some of the very tradtional stlyes from years ago are a little different to the same styles practised today.

 

As for the contact - there is not a huge difference between what I did in Wado Ryu and what I do now in GKR. I personally would not like to practice full contact on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I would if I was that way inclined but I don't want to. I have taken an accidental punch to the face and I take it, I have also given them out.

 

I think GKR is probably more appealing to familes and older students who have never had any MA background because of this. Yes, you could probably attend the gym or do some other excercise for the same price but I like the family atmosphere. If GKR is a kick start to some youngsters who later decide to try different styles, isn't this a good thing?

 

I do have reservations about the door knocking selling of GKR but if they hadn't knocked on mine I don't know if I would have ever started up again.

 

It has taken me about the same time, maybe a little longer because of some personal problems I had to get to 5kyu which I am now. I hope to grade in the next couple of months so no quick gradings as some have suggested in this forum. My sensei (who is a black belt) will not grade anyone who she doesn't think is ready. As a result in any tournaments our club have attended, we have done very well against others of the same grade from around the country. I myself have won medals for both Kumite and Kata.

 

For those of you who would like to see a GKR tournament then the GKR Nationals are being held at Ponds Forge in Sheffield on 16 November. Why not go along and look for yourselves at the standard of competitors. The top 3 in Kata and top 4 in Kumite from all the Regional qualifiers will be competing. I think the competition starts at around 9 or 9.30.

[vigaz 10]

Pete GKR - I think we train at the same club on a Tuesday if you are who I think you are. If so I am the old lady in the blue belt who stands in line not too far away from you.

[Kitsune 10]

Dear Baerenfanger,

 

I'm an Australian. I've known Bob Sullivan since we trained together with Merv Oakley, Tony Chew and Masayuki Takasaka.

You wrote:

"I was once shown (by a GKR instructor) a photocopy of Robert Sullivan's 2nd Dan grading certificate from Kei Shin Kan Karate (now called Kei Shin Kai in Japan). It was signed by Master Masanao Takazawa 8th Dan."

 

That is an authentic grade. It is the last grade Bob was awarded by a Japanese master.

 

Bob was never given any permission from anyone in Kei Shin Kan to train under the name GKR. GKR is his own compilation of a mix of Goju Kai and Kei Shin Kan. He openly admits this, unlike some other identities in the martial arts world - some very famous, especially in the gung fu world - who lie about the art they teach being taught to them by another (usually deceased) master. Sensei Takasaka, as his instructor at the time, was considerably less than happy that Bob devised his own art. The quality of GKR I leave for others to judge.

 

You write of Sensei Takasaka:

"He is still training in Melbourne at Belmore Road, Box Hill under the name Koryu Karate Do- having broken away from KSK Japan"

 

 

Correct

 

You write:

"Sensei Uchida 5th Dan is still training in Sydney under Kei Shin Kan"

 

Correct

 

You write:

"Old home movies of Sullivan training with Kei Shin Kan when Master Takazawa visited Australia in or about 1974 with his senior 5th Dan students, still exist"

 

 

I was there.

 

You write"

"They are the most incredible movies, because when people like Sullivan were babies in karate terms, here were 5th Dan and 8th Dan (Master Takazawa) Japanese displaying amazing karate"

 

They were, and are, fantastic.

 

You write:

" Sullivan calls himself 7th Dan"

 

Several from that time have "moved up in grade"

 

You write:

 

"Well I ask you, if you could learn from Sullivan or the Japanese instructor who is the real deal, who still trains in Melbourne, Uchida in Sydney - who would you go to?"

 

Indeed. Bob was a "good bloke" but is now a very ill old man. Senseis Takasaka and Uchida are likewise older guys - but are hale and hearty and

incredible karateka. Thank you for posting your comment.

[matt9584 10]

Hi,

 

Thought I'd post my experience with gkr.

 

I was an sdc with them for 2 years. I started when I was 17. training in the southern zone, my zone director was joe estrada. Unfortunately this was my first experience in martial arts training and so I had nothing to compare what I was being taught to. GKR is a business. But not a business as you would imagine. It's more like a cult. The gkr students are a broad mix of people from all classes of society who train once a week and go back to their normal lives. GKR staff however are a little different. The vast majority are simple people who have been recruited from the local high street in the middle of the day. They have nothing worth while in their lives with no hope of securing a real job or career. This is the type of person that can be manipulated and controlled. My excuse by the way: I had only just left school and my stepfather (a regional manager) made me do it! I was still young and naive. To this day I don't really have any bad feelings about the gkr business model. It is a business after all. The principal of a business is to make profits which it successfully does. gkr's fast expansion, as many people know, is due to the fact that they will allow anyone that is willing to teach a class. And make no mistake - they have not been selected because of talent and they could be any grade. One of my sdc buddies started teaching at 9th kyu / yellow tip after 10 lessons! - no lie! BTW - unless you are a regional manager working full-time you do not get paid for teaching a class for gkr. So why do they all agree to do it!? The reason they agree to do it is because they get given a black belt with a white stripe through the middle. This is often mistaken as a penis extention and gives these wasters instant gratification and authourity in their lives. Now they're a somebody!

Now lets get to the martial arts. If it was called gkr sport karate - I may even find that acceptable. But its not. GKR calls itself a traditional style teaching real self-defence techniques. This is a lie. Whilst GKR teaches authentic kata's (yes i know sulliven has altered them all slightly one way or another) I find it astonishing that not a single GKR instructor could tell you what these moves in kata are actually for. Not even 7th dan sulliven himself. I have since researched these katas and realized that karate is not a simple striking art that many consider it to be. These kata teach everything from throws to grappling to joint minipulation and even ground work! If only there were more instructors around that knew the real meanings of these katas.

 

I have trained now for a long time in mma which includes muay thai and submission grappling. This is by far the most dominent martial art on the planet. It is nothing new though! All the moves come from judo, wrestling, karate, kickboxing, ju-jitsu etc. What it is, is a collective knowledge of the techniques which are proven to work from all martial arts styles under combat situations. I still however teach my own karate school. Whilst mma is my preferred style, it is too hard and too technical for mainstream martial artists. I also like the etiquette and respect that goes with karate which is not found in mma classes. I believe this to be just as impotant as the techniques themselves. Especially for youngsters in todays world!

 

Just to summerize, anyone wishing to persue martial arts. 10 days of mma training will be more beneficial to you that 10 years with GKR. If you wish to train in a more traditional art such as karate (like many top mma fighters either had done previosly or still do in many cases) then find yourself an instructor that knows what he/she is talking about. There arn't any in gkr!

 

Matt.

[Kitsune 10]

I would not refute anything you say about GKR, regrettably.

The modern, sportified martial arts world, especially karate is a poor reflection of the art even only forty years or so ago, let alone a hundred.

There are instructors in the karate world who can give you all the applications of all the katas. Many moves have multi-applicability. Learn from your unhappy experience and seek out true masters. They may often be people no-one has ever heard of, in my experience. Best wishes on your journey!