The Clairvoyant Megathread- all discussion in here please

[thompsonbass 10]

No you don't!! They don't exist. Please save yourself time and money.

 

Watch this http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown-investigates/4od#3078017

[barleycorn 10]

It isnt clairvoyance in that it doesnt exist! its very understandable for people to want to contact the dead but at the end of the day these clairvoyants are taking money off vulnerable and unhappy people!

 

NLP however can have therapeutic effects. I personally know people that it has helped, more than medication. So you cant say it doesn't work.

 

I thought he was only mildly dismissive of it?

 

I can and will say it doesn't work. If you claim that it does then where are the peer review clinical trials demonstrating its positive effects? I'm sorry (well strictly speaking I'm not in the least bit sorry but it doesn't hurt to be polite, a sentiment which I have now wasted) but personal anecdotes and testimonials just don't cut the mustard.

 

It seems that NLP develops models which can't be verified, from which it develops techniques which may have nothing to do with either the models or the sources of the models. NLP makes claims about thinking and perception which do not seem to be supported by neuroscience. This is not to say that the techniques won't work. They may work and work quite well, but there is no way to know whether the claims behind their origin are valid. Perhaps it doesn't matter. NLP itself proclaims that it is pragmatic in its approach: what matters is whether it works*. However, how do you measure the claim "NLP works"? I don't know and I don't think NLPers know, either. Anecdotes and testimonials seem to be the main measuring devices. Unfortunately, such a measurement may reveal only how well the trainers teach their clients to persuade others to enroll in more training sessions.

http://www.skepdic.com/neurolin.html

 

Pragmatic fallacy.

 

The pragmatic fallacy is committed when one argues that something is true because it works and where 'works' means something like "I'm satisfied with it," "I feel better," "I find it beneficial, meaningful, or significant," or "It explains things for me." For example, many people claim that astrology works, numerology works, therapeutic touch works, or palmistry works. What 'works' means here is vague and ambiguous. At the least, it means that one perceives some practical benefit in believing that it is true, despite the fact that the utility of a belief is independent of its truth-value.

 

jb

 

ETA: Oh and on the subject of Derren Brown... in Tricks of the Mind you find out just how dismissive of NLP he really is.

Edited June 1, 2011 by barleycorn

[dink 10]

Yawn. . . . how do people know they dont exist??

 

Is it because they believe they dont exist, or is it because they have no proof they exist?

 

People believe in god, and no proof what so ever in that, so id tell people who attend church to save the time also, and do something for charity on a sunday morning instead

[squidge00 10]

If something works for you and you are not being ripped off in the process or being manipulated or being hurt by someone else, then I see no problem with it. For example - holistic medicine - might not actually work but if you believe it does then the power of the mind is such that you begin to heal.

[MC Spyda 10]

Yawn. . . . how do people know they dont exist??

 

Is it because they believe they dont exist, or is it because they have no proof they exist?

 

People believe in god, and no proof what so ever in that, so id tell people who attend church to save the time also, and do something for charity on a sunday morning instead

 

I 'know' they don't exist in the same way that I know flying unicorns don't exist.

[barleycorn 10]

I 'know' they don't exist in the same way that I know flying unicorns don't exist.

 

'Ware else you face the wrath of She that Ruptures Socks.

 

jb

[barleycorn 10]

Yawn. . . . how do people know they dont exist??

 

Is it because they believe they dont exist, or is it because they have no proof they exist?

 

People believe in god, and no proof what so ever in that, so id tell people who attend church to save the time also, and do something for charity on a sunday morning instead

 

To say I believe they* don't exist is erroneous in the same way that saying not collecting stamps is a hobby. It would be more accurate to say I lack belief.

 

I lack belief in the abilities of clairvoyants/physics, the presence of ghosts/faires/gods and leprechauns in the same way that I lack belief in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy.

 

jb

[Fishcake 10]

Pick what works for you from NLP - DErren Brown used to be a big fan of it and still uses some parts of it (read his books - I have). He found what I did, that some people treat it as a total package that can do everything, which it can't. It has some very useful tools, which are used in other self help areas and it also has a lot of stuff I found to be crud. I picked out what I could see worked and made sense and dumped the rest.

 

Anyway, back to OP, I could train in cold reading for a week and pass as a psychic/clairvoyant and do it well. But we are forgetting that no matter what we say about the practise some people have faith (like religious people) and their faith will make them seek out pyschics etc and no matter what we say they still will.

[RootsBooster 24]

Anyway, back to OP, I could train in cold reading for a week and pass as a psychic/clairvoyant and do it well. But we are forgetting that no matter what we say about the practise some people have faith (like religious people) and their faith will make them seek out pyschics etc and no matter what we say they still will.

 

Interesting you should say that, there are actually courses you can take to learn to become "psychic".

 

I think that in itself speaks volumes. Next they'll have courses that teach you to breathe underwater.

[bluevan 10]

If it really was possible to contact the dead dont you think the goverment would have found a way to "sell" it and put VAT and tax on it .

People that pretend to be able to do this can cause more upset and harm than the "unanswered" questions your left with, If you get told something you didnt want to hear you have to live with it, I wouldnt bother, who ever it is you want to contact will be fine and no one on this earth will be able to contact them

[Spikie 10]

This is all very interesting, but we're getting sidetracked.

 

Have you, or have you not, been in contact with Peter? Did he mention anything about where he left that tenner he owed me?

[Aries22 10]

Why see a clairvoyant, most people on here will tell you what you want to hear