Sheffield Council - Do they take fixing pot holes seriously?

[frededwards 10]

Only in Sheffield?

 

Do the drivers tweak their suspension when in Sheffield to ruin the roads?

 

Or were the council sold the "wrong kind of tarmac"?

 

 

Strangely, the research and/or qualified opinion to back up that ridiculous claim hasn't been forthcoming.............I wonder why?

[WallBuilder 10]

A couple of things I've noticed with heavier vehicles is that a lot of roads they use were never built to take that sort of weight and so they are starting to break up and also I can think of a few area's were the roads are on hills and if a lorry starts from a stationary position the wheels start removing the tarmac. I'm going to be really interested to see how this new company do with the road refurbishment when they get to an area that I know and how they'll monitor the poor work the utility companies often do when they're filling in their holes and trenches.

[mjhal 10]

reported a pothole on the rd we live on yesterday online, they repaired it this morning at 9.40,

you cant get better than that

[slugger 10]

omg, now i have heard everything, please feel free to explain to us how a hgv damages a road more than a bus, seeing as you are now an expert on this as well now lol

 

 

 

Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android

 

A bus weighs aprox 10 tons max unladen and probably 17 tons max fully loaded. Considerably less than than a fully loaded articulated HGVs which can weigh 38 tons fully loaded. its the weight of a vehicle that determines the damage to the roads.

[frededwards 10]

Weight is one factor that needs to be considered, but one also has to factor in the application of torque applied to the road metalling during acceleration/deceleration and starting/stopping.

 

I would be tempted to point out the obvious, that buses stop more frequently than other road vehicle, but; given the proliferation of needless traffic lights; this may not be relevant within Sheffield.

[Verdan 10]

That's not true. They went down the PFI route because that is the only way they could raise enough money to fix the roads. Nothing to do with whether or not Streetforce could do the job. Amey have basically taken over Streetforce and the same engineers are designing and organising the works as before, with some reinforcements from Amey because of the sheer volume of work they're processing.

 

Sorry Planner1, i agree with you on most things and will stand up for you against some of the torrent you get, but the volume of work is not the only reason they have brought people in from outside SCC, many staff have been brought in to bring the SCC staff inline as they aren't capable or experienced in maintenance, but under TUPE Amey couldn't get rid of them. PM me if you want to know how i know this or more details.

 

omg, now i have heard everything, please feel free to explain to us how a hgv damages a road more than a bus, seeing as you are now an expert on this as well now lol

Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android

 

Please go and read the DMRB on http://www.dft.gov.uk/

 

In particular pay attention to HD26 and HD24

For those of you not willing to or dont have the time to read, take this example, if i hit you a thousand times lightly, you'll be ok, but if i hit you heavily once you get a bruise, that is simply the same as a car vs lorry.

 

As for Buses having to stop/start, they do it slowly so dont rip up the surface, unlike some car drivers who race away from the lights, and slam brakes on when they realise they cant make it once the light has changed to red. Also, the bus bays are (in modern design) reinforced to take the standing load of a bus as designers have realised they can stop there for some time.

[slugger 10]

Weight is one factor that needs to be considered, but one also has to factor in the application of torque applied to the road metalling during acceleration/deceleration and starting/stopping.

 

I would be tempted to point out the obvious, that buses stop more frequently than other road vehicle, but; given the proliferation of needless traffic lights; this may not be relevant within Sheffield.

 

Valid points on torque and acceleration/decceleration. For me I think weight is the bigger factor and determines your above factors mentioned.

 

An analogy for weight might be :- Frozen pond, a lightweight kid say 40kg could skate all day without a problem. Put a 75kg bloke on there and Crack the ice would break !

 

---------- Post added 05-12-2012 at 17:38 ----------

 

Sorry Planner1, i agree with you on most things and will stand up for you against some of the torrent you get, but the volume of work is not the only reason they have brought people in from outside SCC, many staff have been brought in to bring the SCC staff inline as they aren't capable or experienced in maintenance, but under TUPE Amey couldn't get rid of them. PM me if you want to know how i know this or more details.

 

 

 

Please go and read the DMRB on http://www.dft.gov.uk/

 

In particular pay attention to HD26 and HD24

For those of you not willing to or dont have the time to read, take this example, if i hit you a thousand times lightly, you'll be ok, but if i hit you heavily once you get a bruise, that is simply the same as a car vs lorry.

 

As for Buses having to stop/start, they do it slowly so dont rip up the surface, unlike some car drivers who race away from the lights, and slam brakes on when they realise they cant make it once the light has changed to red. Also, the bus bays are (in modern design) reinforced to take the standing load of a bus as designers have realised they can stop there for some time.

 

Hi Verdon lost you on the very last part of your post " the bus bays are (in modern design) reinforced to take the standing load of a bus as designers have realised they can stop there for some time" . Can you elaborate more please ? Sorry if I appear thick

[Verdan 10]

Bus laybys have a thicker depth of construction compared to carriageway. Clearly roads that have not been designed to the new standards wont have this, hence the "modern design" comment.

 

Roads are constructed of different layers or different materials. By changing the material and the thicknesses, you get different strengths and different lifespans. Yes we could build every road to Motorway standard, but it would cost far too much, and even those roads have to be rebuilt at some time. Therefore designers are tasked with building the best road for the expected traffic, but are constrained to a budget.

 

The important word there is "expected" traffic - you shouldn't design for something abnormal.

[Planner1 438]

Strangely, the research and/or qualified opinion to back up that ridiculous claim hasn't been forthcoming.............I wonder why?

That would be because I work for a living and only post on here in my own time.

 

I see that Verdan has posted some info on this, but, if you want more, you could uefully read:

 

A PAVEMENT DAMAGE BASED SYSTEM FOR CHARGING HGVS FOR THEIR USE OF ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE, Nii Amoo Dodoo and Neil Thorpe 2004

 

"Of particular interest are Heavy Good Vehicles (HGV) because they are responsible for virtually all road pavement damage. For example, a single 8 tonne axle of an HGV causes

approximately 65,500 times more damage than the 0.5 tonne axle of a car (Cebon, 1999)."

 

Heavy Lorries, Do they Pay for the damage They Cause? Metropolitan Transport Research Unit 2008

Comparison of HGV to car

Car with 2 X .5 tonne axles 171,920 times more damaging

Car with .4 + .6 tonne axles 138,467 times more damaging

It should be noted, however, that such calculations have to be treated with caution in relation to vehicles which are able to lift axles off the road. This can change, for example, a 6 axle vehicle into a 4 axle vehicle. The trade off is reduced vehicle costs but higher road damage.

 

Assessing the Relative Road damaging Potential of HGV's, TEC Potter David Cebon and DJ Cole, Cambridge University Engineering Department

 

Influence of tractor—trailer interaction on assessment of road damaging performance, DJ Cole, D Cebon

 

Put any of thee in Google and you will find the relevant documents. Happy reading.

 

---------- Post added 05-12-2012 at 18:57 ----------

 

What about Leeds?

 

Roughly the same population, roughly the same HGV density, roughly the same climate..............yet the roads ar markedly better.

 

Yes, Leeds, who, recently have gone to the Government with the begging bowl to give them millions of pounds to carry out overdue maintenance that they can't afford to carry out on structures on their Innner Ring Road, which, if not urgently addressed could, they said, lead to the closure of the road.

 

Say what you like about SCC, but things haven't got that bad here.

[rollwithit 12]

They are not pot wholes, they are self forming speed (ramps) wholes.

Part of Sheffield Councils value for money and road safety strategy.

 

The process requires no expensive public consultation exercise, planning issues, or road works.

 

The wholes slow down the traffic making pedestrains much safer. Well, until they trip on a pot whole I suppose lol

[slugger 10]

Bus laybys have a thicker depth of construction compared to carriageway. Clearly roads that have not been designed to the new standards wont have this, hence the "modern design" comment.

 

Roads are constructed of different layers or different materials. By changing the material and the thicknesses, you get different strengths and different lifespans. Yes we could build every road to Motorway standard, but it would cost far too much, and even those roads have to be rebuilt at some time. Therefore designers are tasked with building the best road for the expected traffic, but are constrained to a budget.

 

The important word there is "expected" traffic - you shouldn't design for something abnormal.

 

Cheers with you

[Planner1 438]

omg, now i have heard everything, please feel free to explain to us how a hgv damages a road more than a bus, seeing as you are now an expert on this as well now lol

 

 

 

Posted from Sheffieldforum.co.uk App for Android

 

Read the posts and links provided by myself and Verdan and see if you still lol

 

As it happens, I am what most people would think of as an "expert" in these matters. I am a qualified highway engineer and hold a Chartered qualification in Transport Planning, I also have over 30 years experince in the industry.

 

Feel free to explain what qualifications and experience in these matters you have which allow you to belittle people who actually do know what they are talking about.