Football finance

[F. Sidebottom 10]

I'm going to raise a couple of points on two posts.

 

First of all the question of fans interest in football finances.

 

There appear to be two issues being debated, based on posts on this thread so far:

 

1. Do supporters have the capacity to understand their/other clubs finances?

2. Should they be interested in their/other clubs finances?

 

For 1, I have to say that I am aware of a number of fans, myself included, who have owned businesses. Now it's probably fair to say that none of us have owned football clubs, or possibley even 'large' businesses, but our experiences will give us the capacity to form a reasonable understanding of the accounts, and form an opinion (using other knowledge) of associated forecasts/predictions.

 

For 2, I believe it is essesntial for some (I have to accept that some are simply not capable) fans to have an interest in the clubs finances. The club is like any other business; it needs to be operated correctly and solvently. However, a football club is also unlike many other businesses in that it's fans don't move to other clubs (like you could change to a different brand of ketchup if you wanted), the true fans will stay with the club whoever owns it, whoever is employed by it, or whatever receipe they decide to use. For this reason, and even though the club is not (usually) in direct ownership of the majority of the fans, the club is answerable to it's customers - the fans. As such, it should be able to prove it is operating in a way that is beneficial to the name of the club (that which shall remain after the current owners have departed). This can only be verified by the fans themselves. Finally, all clubs are competing for a slice of a limited revenue/market. It is essential to understand what other clubs who are also competing for this revenue are doing in order to ensure you are maximising your oppurtunities. For all those reasons, fans should have an interest in club finances.

Edited November 22, 2012 by F. Sidebottom

[slingem 10]

I'm going to raise a couple of points on two posts.

 

First of all the question of fans interest in football finances.

 

There appear to be two issues being debated, based on posts on this thread so far:

 

1. Do supporters have the capacity to understand their/other clubs finances?

2. Should they be interested in their/other clubs finances?

 

For 1, I have to say that I am aware of a number of fans, myself included, who have owned businesses. Now it's probably fair to say that none of us have owned football clubs, or possibley even 'large' businesses, but our experiences will give us the capacity

to form a reasonable understanding of the accounts, and form an opinion (using other knowledge) of associated forecasts/predictions.

 

For 2, I believe it is essesntial for some (I have to accept that some are simply not capable) fans to have an interest in the clubs finances. The club is like any other business; it needs to be operated correctly and solvently. However, a football club is also unlike many other businesses in that it's fans don't move to other clubs (like you could change to a different brand of ketchup if you wanted), the true fans will stay with the club whoever owns it, whoever is employed by it, or whatever receipe they decide to use. For this reason, and even though the club is not (usually) in direct ownership of the majority of the fans, the club is answerable to it's customers - the fans. As such, it should be able to prove it is operating in a way that is beneficial to the name of the club (that which shall remain after the current owners have departed). This can only be verified by the fans themselves. Finally, all clubs are competing for a slice of a limited revenue/market. It is essential to understand what other clubs who are also competing for this revenue are doing in order to ensure you are maximising your oppurtunities. For all those reasons, fans should have an interest in club finances.

 

1/ My bold.....That only seems to happen when fans speak of their own clubs finances and receeds into nonsense when speaking of oposining clubs.

 

2/McCabe, Mandaric answer to no one because they know the fans are there for the love of the club come what may.

I can't see where any of the above would improve the fans match day experience or aid the club with it's financial situation.

I also think if a fan is interested in HIS/HER clubs finances it's fair enough but to be obsessed with the opositions finance to the extent of trying to use it as an argumentative tool when their team is doing badly on the pitch doesn't make sense.

When a fans team is losing week in week out it doesn't make sense for them to stick their head in the sand by saying "yes but that other team across the road is skint" and not address the on field problems of their club which is what the large majority of fans are more concerned about.

 

In a nutshell put your own shop in order before worrying so much about someone elses and people in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

One thing is for certain where sheffield clubs are concerned, there is not a thing any of us can do about it because we go and watch teams that we have no financial say whatsever over.

We have followed our teams through highs and lows bought shares, had collections, donated supporters club money etc etc and still never had any say in the club....One thing remains the same, WE ARE STILL THERE WEEK IN WEEK OUT.

Edited November 22, 2012 by slingem

[F. Sidebottom 10]

My second point is in resopnse to this:

 

It seems , finance is top of the Owl members agenda, at the momment.

 

On this note , its worth asking the membership, does the finance, present and past really matter to the supporters/fans of either football club?

 

 

After all do the Owls feel any shame over their financial history?

 

and

 

Do the Blades lose any sleep, over their present large debt?

 

 

 

Please lets not this thread become a playground like other threads, maybe if the mods make it a sticky post, so it can be monitored.

 

This post is then followed on here (and in line with a number of others on other threads) with posts that are critical of the Owls obsession with Blades finance. Many of these criticisms are made by users who have joined in the last few years.

 

I've been a member on here since November 2006, posting mainly on this part of the forum.

 

What do you think the financial situation was like back when I joined, and for the following 4/5 years? the Owls were in deperate trouble, the blades were being run with competence and professionalism.

 

Was it all friendly and nice from the blades, and sympathetic towards our plight?

 

What do you think!!!!!!

 

We've had it all over the years that this forum has existed - dragging up history about how we'd been in trouble before, mocking our lack of spending power and subsequent decline, taunting us from the steps of court rooms, spitting venom at us when we reached settlement wih creditors.

 

Who were the financial experts then?

 

So before too many of you judgmental upstarts get on your high horses, just remember the following cliches:

 

1. You reap what you sow

2. You've made your bed, now lie in it

3. What's good for the goose is good for the gander

4. Don't give it if you can't take it

 

If we all want silence now that the tables have turned, we should have all been big enough to keep it shut back then.

Edited November 22, 2012 by F. Sidebottom

[Grappler 12]

I'm going to raise a couple of points on two posts.

 

First of all the question of fans interest in football finances.

 

There appear to be two issues being debated, based on posts on this thread so far:

 

1. Do supporters have the capacity to understand their/other clubs finances?

2. Should they be interested in their/other clubs finances?

 

For 1, I have to say that I am aware of a number of fans, myself included, who have owned businesses. Now it's probably fair to say that none of us have owned football clubs, or possibley even 'large' businesses, but our experiences will give us the capacity to form a reasonable understanding of the accounts, and form an opinion (using other knowledge) of associated forecasts/predictions.

 

For 2, I believe it is essesntial for some (I have to accept that some are simply not capable) fans to have an interest in the clubs finances. The club is like any other business; it needs to be operated correctly and solvently. However, a football club is also unlike many other businesses in that it's fans don't move to other clubs (like you could change to a different brand of ketchup if you wanted), the true fans will stay with the club whoever owns it, whoever is employed by it, or whatever receipe they decide to use. For this reason, and even though the club is not (usually) in direct ownership of the majority of the fans, the club is answerable to it's customers - the fans. As such, it should be able to prove it is operating in a way that is beneficial to the name of the club (that which shall remain after the current owners have departed). This can only be verified by the fans themselves. Finally, all clubs are competing for a slice of a limited revenue/market. It is essential to understand what other clubs who are also competing for this revenue are doing in order to ensure you are maximising your oppurtunities. For all those reasons, fans should have an interest in club finances.

 

A few things here Sidey, first highlight, I think we can take that as a given.

 

Second highlight, nope, big business accounts are usually are very complicated, sometimes intentionally so, moving things around etc. I am following the financial situation of a global electronics company at present, who are teetering on the edge, the accounts are impossible for a lay man to follow, I am relying on expert advice to unpick the data. (and yes I have run my own business).

 

Next bold; do you really think that football behaves in anyway, shape or form like any other business? I think we have all agreed in the past that football is a law unto itself, it was only a few years ago that we were debating the list that appeared, naming all the football clubs who were effectively going bust, or on the edge (I think from memory only two Premiership clubs on the list were not, one being Stoke City).

 

It is not that long ago that SWFC faced what looked like a dire situtation; did they go under? No. Did the fans stop attending? No. Did the majority of them even care?

 

The only person on this thread who could help us here is Veritas, not sure where he is, but when he chimes in, we will hear from someone who knows what he is talking about.

 

At the end of the day, its not going to stop any of us attending the match every week, is it? (those of us who atend).

[F. Sidebottom 10]

A few things here Sidey, first highlight, I think we can take that as a given.

 

Second highlight, nope, big business accounts are usually are very complicated, sometimes intentionally so, moving things around etc. I am following the financial situation of a global electronics company at present, who are teetering on the edge, the accounts are impossible for a lay man to follow, I am relying on expert advice to unpick the data. (and yes I have run my own business).

 

Next bold; do you really think that football behaves in anyway, shape or form like any other business? I think we have all agreed in the past that football is a law unto itself, it was only a few years ago that we were debating the list that appeared, naming all the football clubs who were effectively going bust, or on the edge (I think from memory only two Premiership clubs on the list were not, one being Stoke City).

 

It is not that long ago that SWFC faced what looked like a dire situtation; did they go under? No. Did the fans stop attending? No. Did the majority of them even care?

 

The only person on this thread who could help us here is Veritas, not sure where he is, but when he chimes in, we will hear from someone who knows what he is talking about.

 

At the end of the day, its not going to stop any of us attending the match every week, is it? (those of us who atend).

 

I think if we were to be presented with the full accounts, we'd struggle, for sure.

 

But we can all understand the overall picture from the summarised reporting.

 

And while I stated that a football club is like any other business - it has an owner who needs to run it, I then go on to emphasis how a football club is not like other businesses in my origibnal post.

[Grappler 12]

I think if we were to be presented with the full accounts, we'd struggle, for sure.

 

But we can all understand the overall picture from the summarised reporting.

 

And while I stated that a football club is like any other business - it has an owner who needs to run it, I then go on to emphasis how a football club is not like other businesses in my origibnal post.

 

Agreed on first bold.

 

Second bold - to be honest it all depends on who is doing the summarising, if it was KPMG or PWC, you would have confidence to certain degree. I have not read this yet, so not sure if it was The Sheffield Star doing the summarising (*shudder*) or someone else.

 

Your third point, I think I know what you are getting at (?), anyway, the rules that apply in football do not seem to have any relationship to the rules that apply to business in the real world.

[Titanic99 10]

And the majority are like rabid dogs with a bone You know the one(s) we do a special £10 , kids a quid ect and suddenly everyone pays that for every game totally ignoring posts when they are corrected moving the goalposts every post

 

I assume that’s aimed at me so I’ll take my right to reply.

 

Regarding the paying £10 for a game, I’ve always pointed out this figure to be an average one and this is based on the following calculation:

 

Gate receipts £4495000 for the financial year (including play-off final)

Average attendance 18900

Number of games including play-offs and cup game 26

 

Average gate receipt per person attending is £9.14, which is inflated due to the revenue from Wembley.

 

Now nothing in there is offensive, if you can’t deal with what is written then stay off the forum.

[NERVY-OWL 191]

the only aspect of finances that interest me are how much the ticket prices are and that the club aren't going out of buisiness. no point me looking at these summarys they bring out, me and numbers don't mix:hihi:

[Droppingwell 10]

I assume that’s aimed at me so I’ll take my right to reply.

 

Regarding the paying £10 for a game, I’ve always pointed out this figure to be an average one and this is based on the following calculation:

 

Gate receipts £4495000 for the financial year (including play-off final)

Average attendance 18900

Number of games including play-offs and cup game 26

 

Average gate receipt per person attending is £9.14, which is inflated due to the revenue from Wembley.

 

Now nothing in there is offensive, if you can’t deal with what is written then stay off the forum.

 

Interesting breakdown, just as a comparison do you know how Wednesday's figures compare?

[TAT 10]

Interesting breakdown, just as a comparison do you know how Wednesday's figures compare?

 

What is interesting is Titanic, never discloses what he and his family pay per match, its less than a tenner each!!

 

One adult season ticket (£350 and a £50 kid season ticket). great value, and on par with Uniteds average.

 

So when Titanic pulls out the footy for less than a tenner card, give him a gentle reminder

Edited November 23, 2012 by TAT

[TAT 10]

the only aspect of finances that interest me are how much the ticket prices are and that the club aren't going out of buisiness. no point me looking at these summarys they bring out, me and numbers don't mix:hihi:

 

Nervy 99% of supporters would agree with your comments.

[strangerthe6 10]

I assume that’s aimed at me so I’ll take my right to reply.

 

Regarding the paying £10 for a game, I’ve always pointed out this figure to be an average one and this is based on the following calculation:

 

Gate receipts £4495000 for the financial year (including play-off final)

Average attendance 18900

Number of games including play-offs and cup game 26

 

Average gate receipt per person attending is £9.14, which is inflated due to the revenue from Wembley.

 

Now nothing in there is offensive, if you can’t deal with what is written then stay off the forum.

 

Not sure where you've got these figures from. I assume the gate receipts figure is from the accounts so will be correct but it will include ALL gate receipts including away cup ties. My understanding is the average gate of 18805 is for league matches and doesn't include cup games all of which were well below this figure.

Why is one cup game included when there were 4 home and 3 away. Also the share of the play off semi away leg will be in there.

I understand your calculation but you've conveniently ignored a lot of games with much lower attendances.