Have you caught this on TV?

[jim lyon 11]

Hi!

Maybe some of you out there are as fascinated by the BBC2 Monday night series "The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler" as I am? And while it seems to get into great depth as to how Hitler manipulated his way into power on the world stage & caused untold misery for countless millions, there are certain areas that will be avoided e.g. I'll be surprised if they go even as far as describing Hitler as a psychopath, which is clearly what he was ( Btw it seems a given that one of the many things that conventional psychology tries to avoid is that child abuse is what creates psychopaths, not genes. They also tend to ignore the fact, still controlled by their past traumas, it's a goal of most psychopaths to obtain positions of power & authority, so they, & not others, get to do the controlling. It thus follows that many psychopaths gravitate towards such positions in business & politics. And while we're told we live in a democracy, the fact is that, not being a true democracy, while psychopaths might seem unthreatening because of their small numbers [ estimated to be 1 in 200 in the UK ], the fact is that our pseudo democracy, being hierarchical in nature means that it only takes relatively few psychopaths to get their hands on the levers of power to take control of a country. - And while I'm not saying we're yet there, today it can be seen that there's an increasing disconnect between populations of Western so called democracies & the governments that are supposed to serve them, but seem to be increasingly driven by their own self interests & increasingly irrational ideologies ! )

However THE one area that all history books on Hitler have all carefully avoided or denied is the abusive nature of his childhood, & how he was regularly beaten by his father. So, when he grew up physically,it's hardly surprising that he went to great lengths To prevent anybody ever having power & control over him again. Given his childhood circumstances, that's entirely understandable, but clearly he lacked not only balance but the necessary self discipline to avoid going completely overboard & obtaining his wants pathologically. It should be noted that the destructiveness of Hitler & others is NOT "innate" or genetic, rather it is reactive, usually being a compulsion created by "unconscious" past trauma.

Looking @ these old films of Hitler's speeches, his ranting & raving seems slightly comic to us nowadays, but actually it was a clever impersonation of an authoritarian father figure, which was a tool that helped him to gain power. You see, in the later part of the 19th century, there were quite a number of books published in Germany that amounted to manuals on how to condition children ( in the Pavlovian sense ) to be completely obedient to their authoritarian parents. What this created was a large pool of people who, when they grew up, became little more than "robots" willing to carry out the orders of the "father"/ Fuhrer of theNazi"family" who'd not only protect them from the world's ills, but return Germany to it's "rightful" position of being a world leader, etc. A brief example of the power of this negative conditioning can be had from the fact that Herman Goering ( Hitler's direct deputy ) admitted that, after interviews with Hitler, after he returned home, would sit in a chair, alone in a room, & shake & quiver for several hours , such was the strength of this toxic parental conditioning that was a profoundly strong feature of German culture in that era! - And Hitler knowingly took advantage of this situation.

And while many might wish to ignore such problems by demonising Hitler, or saying he was a "one off", I'd point out that all the other great tyrants of the 20th century e.g. Stalin;, Mao Tse Tung / Ze Dung; Pol Pot; Saddam Hussein were ALL abused children. And while their abusive parent's toxic behaviour filled their children with such hatred that they felt compelled to "re-enact childhood traumas - dramas" & use convenient innocent bystanders as "emotional dustbins" on who to vent their "unconscious" ( which they couldn't control, because it was repressed )hatred, being unchecked it leads to such horrors as the Nazi Holocaust, etc.

The only book I've come across that explains these psycho dynamics is

 

" For Your Own Good : The Roots Of Violence in Child-rearing" by Alice Miller

 

in which she provides an in depth profile of Hitler & how his toxic childhood consumed him with hatred.

And for more of her books, here's a link to them in the Amazon book catalogue

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_adv_b?search-alias=stripbooks&unfiltered=1&__mk_en_GB=%C5M%C5Z%D5%D1&field-keywords=&field-author=Alice+Miller&field-title=&field-isbn=&field-publisher=&node=&field-binding_browse-bin=&field-subject=&emi=&field-dateop=&field-datemod=&field-dateyear=&sort=&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=43&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=10

 

For those with the wisdom to read Alice Miller's other books ( & if we are ever to obtain a better, more just world, then EVERY parent, teacher, social worker, psychologist, etc should read her work ) they'll start to understand that while Hitler,Stalin & other psychopaths were the product of abusive parenting are the more extreme examples of how "poisonous pedagogy " ( instruction ) has been damaging our species for many mllennia, & unless unchecked, will continue to do so for countless future generations, the sad fact is that not only is abusive parenting a pandemic, while still being considered "normal", but to give perspective,I'll put a number on it - 90% of our species is dysfunctional. To give just a little more detail, 80% of our species is "neurotic". And while that's a word that is too often thrown around rather carelessly, I'll do whatt the neo Freudians are incapable of ( all that Karen Horney in her classic book on the subject "Neurosis & Human Growth" could do was to define it as "a peculiar interpsychic configuration! ! ), & give it a practical defintion - "Neurosis is a sick system of social relationships resulting from disordered growth", which @ least gives some indication of PROCESS. - But in order to understand process, it's necessary to know what the original cause is, something which most of our idiot politicians completely fail to understand when they come out with simplistic comments such as "Tough on crime & tough on the causes of crime".

So, with regards to drug abuse, which is a major factor in crime, in dealing only with the symptoms it shows a complete lack of understanding of the mechanism which is that abused children physically grow up to become traumatised & confused adult-children who, unable to deal with their pain, attempt to top up their repression ( unhealthy, as coming out of repression is the mind-body's way of saying that this needs attenttion & should be dealt with ! ) by means of drugs, alcohol, sex, smoking, etc. In the case of the first two, crime is the easiest way of financing a severe habit.

On another level, to see a further "snapshot" of where child rearing commonly goes wrong, all you have to do is to hang around any shopping centre late on a Saturday afternoon & watch how harassed parents have scant sympathy for having tired out their young children. Rather than comforting them & giving them a chance to recover from having been exhausted by being dragged around, most parents simply click straight into "control mode" as that's what their own parents did to them ( & there seems to be an all too common lack of understanding in that the ONLY way a young child can communicate their NEEDS is to cry. But ( probably because of their own toxic upbringing, they still buy into the rationalisations [ in the sense of an intellectual lie ! ] of their own abusive parents, these parent(s) asssume that "somehow" the child is starting a "power struggle", & the parent shouldn't give in to them !x!x - Which is a classic example of "looking through the wrong end of a telescope" ! So typically they apply "normal" parenting techniques of smacking ( physical abuse ) scolding ( verbal abuse ) or ignoring ( emotional abuse that teaches a child their needs will NEVER be met ! ). So what we have is a SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY

where we create the very thing we're trying to avoid ! Considering that is a point on which much Greek mythology turns on ( e.g. Oedipus ) & the gross consequences of us continuing the same mistakes as previous generations, amount to a Greek tragedy of such epic proportions as to be Germanic! ( e.g. Gotterdamerung! - for how can we focus on preserving civilisation & our species from climate change while we're so confused & distracted by our own internal problems that we're willing to put up with politicians in cahoots with the banksters stealing from the poor [ i.e. the major bank frauds of 2008 have now progressed to so called "austerity measures", which is just another disguised form of theft on a grand scale! ] rather than implementing measures, new technology, etc. to combat climate change? )

But OPPRESSION ( for that's what these unaware parents are engaging in ) BREEDS RESISTANCE. - And they wonder why, they have such a hard time in the "terrible twos"? ( as a thought for more aware parents, as children haven't lived for so long as us, & therefore most will be less contaminated by our dysfunctional society than we are, it follows that, rather than ignoring their NEEDS [ & causing power struggles, etc.] perhaps we should follow their lead & simply meet their NEEDS as they arise? ) well, that's simply because they caused it! Generally after a year of being over controlled, most children are suppressed, & all remains quiet until these abused children have become a little older & stronger in their teens. By which time not only are most kids completely alienated from their parents, but they have also been contaminated such a degree by our dysfunctional society's negative conditioning that when they become parents, they too will contaminate their own children who will pass this perversion of human nature on down through the ages s, which is the true nature of so called "evil"!

For FAR more years than I care to remember, I've heard countless Home Secretaries banging on about how they'll prevent crime by creating a stronger police force when, because their understanding of causality is so limited that they're only dealing with symptoms, & thus "barking up the wrong tree". But @ the 'same' time they still allow/condone parents to physically punish children ( i.e. ABUSE them ). Not only is this a primary cause of the huge trail of consequences we're trying to avoid ( up to & including war, genocide & famine, etc. ) but while they continue allowing that to carry on, in allowing the lines between "acceptable" parenting & abuse to be blurred, the practical effect is that they are condoning the abuse of children!). And for as long as we so called 'adults' in this country remain in denial, then we will continue to generate such statistics as 987 children dying of child abuse in ONE YEAR (2003)in this country! And to put that into perspective, during the 'same' period in Sweden, only one child died from abuse!! - Clearly, in this country, we still have a VERY long way to go!!

At the core of this problem is a lack of basic awareness & education, for not only do our own parents not understand this mechanism, but the power elite who control society have no interest in changing the status quo which serves their own selfish interests. For them, it's FAR better that we continue to have a conventional education system that merely produces more "cogs for the capitalist machine" thus allowing them to grow fat from our sweat. As none of society's institutions have any interest in REALLY improving this age old impasse, we have to do it ourselves! And while the size of the problem seems insurmountable, even for the majority of us who are merely "neurotic", the fact remains that most of us behave the way we do, simply because we don't know any better. But we've now reached a point where the necessasry "tools" are now available in the public domain. - Reading Alice Miller's books was a life changing experience for me - now it can be for you, your family & our future generations!

 

Cheers,

Jim

[Bypassblade 10]

Sorry; but could not read this, paragraph breaks are a good idea, then the person is not just looking at a page of words.

[Beakerzoid 10]

I think it is the annual plug for Alice Miller books (see last years plug at http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8302623#post8302623 )

 

Wonder if Jim gets commission?

[spider1 11]

Hi!

Maybe some of you out there are as fascinated by the BBC2 Monday night series "The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler" as I am? And while it seems to get into great depth as to how Hitler manipulated his way into power on the world stage & caused untold misery for countless millions, there are certain areas that will be avoided e.g. I'll be surprised if they go even as far as describing Hitler as a psychopath, which is clearly what he was ( Btw it seems a given that one of the many things that conventional psychology tries to avoid is that child abuse is what creates psychopaths, not genes. They also tend to ignore the fact, still controlled by their past traumas, it's a goal of most psychopaths to obtain positions of power & authority, so they, & not others, get to do the controlling. It thus follows that many psychopaths gravitate towards such positions in business & politics. And while we're told we live in a democracy, the fact is that, not being a true democracy, while psychopaths might seem unthreatening because of their small numbers [ estimated to be 1 in 200 in the UK ], the fact is that our pseudo democracy, being hierarchical in nature means that it only takes relatively few psychopaths to get their hands on the levers of power to take control of a country. - And while I'm not saying we're yet there, today it can be seen that there's an increasing disconnect between populations of Western so called democracies & the governments that are supposed to serve them, but seem to be increasingly driven by their own self interests & increasingly irrational ideologies ! )

However THE one area that all history books on Hitler have all carefully avoided or denied is the abusive nature of his childhood, & how he was regularly beaten by his father. So, when he grew up physically,it's hardly surprising that he went to great lengths To prevent anybody ever having power & control over him again. Given his childhood circumstances, that's entirely understandable, but clearly he lacked not only balance but the necessary self discipline to avoid going completely overboard & obtaining his wants pathologically. It should be noted that the destructiveness of Hitler & others is NOT "innate" or genetic, rather it is reactive, usually being a compulsion created by "unconscious" past trauma.

Looking @ these old films of Hitler's speeches, his ranting & raving seems slightly comic to us nowadays, but actually it was a clever impersonation of an authoritarian father figure, which was a tool that helped him to gain power. You see, in the later part of the 19th century, there were quite a number of books published in Germany that amounted to manuals on how to condition children ( in the Pavlovian sense ) to be completely obedient to their authoritarian parents. What this created was a large pool of people who, when they grew up, became little more than "robots" willing to carry out the orders of the "father"/ Fuhrer of theNazi"family" who'd not only protect them from the world's ills, but return Germany to it's "rightful" position of being a world leader, etc. A brief example of the power of this negative conditioning can be had from the fact that Herman Goering ( Hitler's direct deputy ) admitted that, after interviews with Hitler, after he returned home, would sit in a chair, alone in a room, & shake & quiver for several hours , such was the strength of this toxic parental conditioning that was a profoundly strong feature of German culture in that era! - And Hitler knowingly took advantage of this situation.

And while many might wish to ignore such problems by demonising Hitler, or saying he was a "one off", I'd point out that all the other great tyrants of the 20th century e.g. Stalin;, Mao Tse Tung / Ze Dung; Pol Pot; Saddam Hussein were ALL abused children. And while their abusive parent's toxic behaviour filled their children with such hatred that they felt compelled to "re-enact childhood traumas - dramas" & use convenient innocent bystanders as "emotional dustbins" on who to vent their "unconscious" ( which they couldn't control, because it was repressed )hatred, being unchecked it leads to such horrors as the Nazi Holocaust, etc.

The only book I've come across that explains these psycho dynamics is

 

" For Your Own Good : The Roots Of Violence in Child-rearing" by Alice Miller

 

in which she provides an in depth profile of Hitler & how his toxic childhood consumed him with hatred.

And for more of her books, here's a link to them in the Amazon book catalogue

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_adv_b?search-alias=stripbooks&unfiltered=1&__mk_en_GB=%C5M%C5Z%D5%D1&field-keywords=&field-author=Alice+Miller&field-title=&field-isbn=&field-publisher=&node=&field-binding_browse-bin=&field-subject=&emi=&field-dateop=&field-datemod=&field-dateyear=&sort=&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=43&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=10

 

For those with the wisdom to read Alice Miller's other books ( & if we are ever to obtain a better, more just world, then EVERY parent, teacher, social worker, psychologist, etc should read her work ) they'll start to understand that while Hitler,Stalin & other psychopaths were the product of abusive parenting are the more extreme examples of how "poisonous pedagogy " ( instruction ) has been damaging our species for many mllennia, & unless unchecked, will continue to do so for countless future generations, the sad fact is that not only is abusive parenting a pandemic, while still being considered "normal", but to give perspective,I'll put a number on it - 90% of our species is dysfunctional. To give just a little more detail, 80% of our species is "neurotic". And while that's a word that is too often thrown around rather carelessly, I'll do whatt the neo Freudians are incapable of ( all that Karen Horney in her classic book on the subject "Neurosis & Human Growth" could do was to define it as "a peculiar interpsychic configuration! ! ), & give it a practical defintion - "Neurosis is a sick system of social relationships resulting from disordered growth", which @ least gives some indication of PROCESS. - But in order to understand process, it's necessary to know what the original cause is, something which most of our idiot politicians completely fail to understand when they come out with simplistic comments such as "Tough on crime & tough on the causes of crime".

So, with regards to drug abuse, which is a major factor in crime, in dealing only with the symptoms it shows a complete lack of understanding of the mechanism which is that abused children physically grow up to become traumatised & confused adult-children who, unable to deal with their pain, attempt to top up their repression ( unhealthy, as coming out of repression is the mind-body's way of saying that this needs attenttion & should be dealt with ! ) by means of drugs, alcohol, sex, smoking, etc. In the case of the first two, crime is the easiest way of financing a severe habit.

On another level, to see a further "snapshot" of where child rearing commonly goes wrong, all you have to do is to hang around any shopping centre late on a Saturday afternoon & watch how harassed parents have scant sympathy for having tired out their young children. Rather than comforting them & giving them a chance to recover from having been exhausted by being dragged around, most parents simply click straight into "control mode" as that's what their own parents did to them ( & there seems to be an all too common lack of understanding in that the ONLY way a young child can communicate their NEEDS is to cry. But ( probably because of their own toxic upbringing, they still buy into the rationalisations [ in the sense of an intellectual lie ! ] of their own abusive parents, these parent(s) asssume that "somehow" the child is starting a "power struggle", & the parent shouldn't give in to them !x!x - Which is a classic example of "looking through the wrong end of a telescope" ! So typically they apply "normal" parenting techniques of smacking ( physical abuse ) scolding ( verbal abuse ) or ignoring ( emotional abuse that teaches a child their needs will NEVER be met ! ). So what we have is a SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY

where we create the very thing we're trying to avoid ! Considering that is a point on which much Greek mythology turns on ( e.g. Oedipus ) & the gross consequences of us continuing the same mistakes as previous generations, amount to a Greek tragedy of such epic proportions as to be Germanic! ( e.g. Gotterdamerung! - for how can we focus on preserving civilisation & our species from climate change while we're so confused & distracted by our own internal problems that we're willing to put up with politicians in cahoots with the banksters stealing from the poor [ i.e. the major bank frauds of 2008 have now progressed to so called "austerity measures", which is just another disguised form of theft on a grand scale! ] rather than implementing measures, new technology, etc. to combat climate change? )

But OPPRESSION ( for that's what these unaware parents are engaging in ) BREEDS RESISTANCE. - And they wonder why, they have such a hard time in the "terrible twos"? ( as a thought for more aware parents, as children haven't lived for so long as us, & therefore most will be less contaminated by our dysfunctional society than we are, it follows that, rather than ignoring their NEEDS [ & causing power struggles, etc.] perhaps we should follow their lead & simply meet their NEEDS as they arise? ) well, that's simply because they caused it! Generally after a year of being over controlled, most children are suppressed, & all remains quiet until these abused children have become a little older & stronger in their teens. By which time not only are most kids completely alienated from their parents, but they have also been contaminated such a degree by our dysfunctional society's negative conditioning that when they become parents, they too will contaminate their own children who will pass this perversion of human nature on down through the ages s, which is the true nature of so called "evil"!

For FAR more years than I care to remember, I've heard countless Home Secretaries banging on about how they'll prevent crime by creating a stronger police force when, because their understanding of causality is so limited that they're only dealing with symptoms, & thus "barking up the wrong tree". But @ the 'same' time they still allow/condone parents to physically punish children ( i.e. ABUSE them ). Not only is this a primary cause of the huge trail of consequences we're trying to avoid ( up to & including war, genocide & famine, etc. ) but while they continue allowing that to carry on, in allowing the lines between "acceptable" parenting & abuse to be blurred, the practical effect is that they are condoning the abuse of children!). And for as long as we so called 'adults' in this country remain in denial, then we will continue to generate such statistics as 987 children dying of child abuse in ONE YEAR (2003)in this country! And to put that into perspective, during the 'same' period in Sweden, only one child died from abuse!! - Clearly, in this country, we still have a VERY long way to go!!

At the core of this problem is a lack of basic awareness & education, for not only do our own parents not understand this mechanism, but the power elite who control society have no interest in changing the status quo which serves their own selfish interests. For them, it's FAR better that we continue to have a conventional education system that merely produces more "cogs for the capitalist machine" thus allowing them to grow fat from our sweat. As none of society's institutions have any interest in REALLY improving this age old impasse, we have to do it ourselves! And while the size of the problem seems insurmountable, even for the majority of us who are merely "neurotic", the fact remains that most of us behave the way we do, simply because we don't know any better. But we've now reached a point where the necessasry "tools" are now available in the public domain. - Reading Alice Miller's books was a life changing experience for me - now it can be for you, your family & our future generations!

 

Cheers,

Jim

I do watch the series [facinating] as i do watch all first and second world war films .But you do go on a bit try to relax and take another pill You can talk a load of rubish .

[Alien52 10]

I think it is the annual plug for Alice Miller books (see last years plug at http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8302623#post8302623 )

 

Wonder if Jim gets commission?

 

Jim'll Fix It ?

[taxman 12]

I've recorded the second episode. I hope it's not as painful to watch as it was trying to read the OP.

[spider1 11]

I've recorded the second episode. I hope it's not as painful to watch as it was trying to read the OP.

 

Yes nearly puts you off watching it . Talk about going on,

[Beakerzoid 10]

Yes nearly puts you off watching it . Talk about going on,

 

The OP just spins off tangentially onto a totally different subject. I may give the programme a watch, but you are right that the post almost puts me off watching it at all.

[jim lyon 11]

The OP just spins off tangentially onto a totally different subject.

 

Au contraire ! I simply explain the ORIGINAL cause(s)

As for the rest of you, not only do you need to do a LOT of growing up, but clearly you have VERY little understanding of the world as it really is !

You people need to understand that, despite the urban myth, ostriches do NOT "bury their head in the sand" as they realise it would be NON SURVIVAL BEHAVIOUR. But clearly you people don't ! -So, hopw does it feel to be less evolved than an ostrich?

[spider1 11]

Au contraire ! I simply explain the ORIGINAL cause(s)

As for the rest of you, not only do you need to do a LOT of growing up, but clearly you have VERY little understanding of the world as it really is !

You people need to understand that, despite the urban myth, ostriches do NOT "bury their head in the sand" as they realise it would be NON SURVIVAL BEHAVIOUR. But clearly you people don't ! -So, hopw does it feel to be less evolved than an ostrich?

 

Do you relise you are probably the bigest bore ever to post on S.F. As for get in the real world a wife and 2 kids is the real world as i suspect you have neither . You are commenly known in the trade as a Numpty.

[howden 10]

Au contraire ! I simply explain the ORIGINAL cause(s)

As for the rest of you, not only do you need to do a LOT of growing up, but clearly you have VERY little understanding of the world as it really is !

You people need to understand that, despite the urban myth, ostriches do NOT "bury their head in the sand" as they realise it would be NON SURVIVAL BEHAVIOUR. But clearly you people don't ! -So, hopw does it feel to be less evolved than an ostrich?

 

An ostrich can format text better than that mess

[Beakerzoid 10]

Au contraire ! I simply explain the ORIGINAL cause(s)

As for the rest of you, not only do you need to do a LOT of growing up, but clearly you have VERY little understanding of the world as it really is !

You people need to understand that, despite the urban myth, ostriches do NOT "bury their head in the sand" as they realise it would be NON SURVIVAL BEHAVIOUR. But clearly you people don't ! -So, hopw does it feel to be less evolved than an ostrich?

 

Beg to differ. The subject was a TV show about Hitler. You decided to talk about things not covered or mentioned in the show, and then went on at great length about the subject matter of a book by an author you seem to have a boner for.

 

It would be akin to starting a thread about Misfits and then writing a huge post on how it doesn't follow the stories of super beings as seen in Marvel Comics, and waffling about how the X-Men got their powers and what they do.

 

I would like to add that at any point when someone uses the phrase "You people.." and then goes on to be judgemental, or makes assumptions on the education or levels of reading others have, it is quite obvious they have no idea what they are on about, and have effectively lost the arguement/discussion.

 

However, to answer your pathetic question, I am happy to be less evolved than an ostrich if it means I am not a droning, condescending bore.