1 In 3 Families Too Poor To Holiday

[Tony 10]

Originally posted by artisan

The working class people in this and any other country are and always will be poverty stricken. It is all a matter of comparison. The poorest person in England today lives in luxury compared to our counterparts of even 100 years ago (read 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist') but this does not make it right.

Whilst ever we tolerate, in the words of the hymn 'God made them High and Lowly and Ordered their estate' we will never advance.

'From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs' as someone once said

... and the poorest people in 80% of the world live in just the same conditions as 100 years ago, and die like they did a 2,000 years ago.

 

We have advanced, the rest will follow as a result.

[artisan 10]

I hope so Tony but by then we will have moved on further, as I say it is all comparison, the only way to put everybody on the same average is to make everyone equal, if you see what I mean.

There will always be people who cannot cope and therefore it is up to the rest of us to help them. This should be done without bitterness or name calling, as at any time anyone of us could fall victim to a quirk of fate. All it takes is illness or accident, and the strongest among us can be at the bottom of the pile.

[Tony 10]

You're right artisan, but it will never be any other way. Folk will be having this same conversation in another 100 years. Our society has no other way to be. It's the reason why we are what we are. today.

 

Compassion is a very, very old word... it's not a fashion.

[Cyclone 10]

whoever it was that quoted me, you'll need to quote a bit more than that, as it makes no sense as an isolated fragment of sentence.

 

Apollo, you're examples keep getting shot down.

 

Nurses on the NHS, woops, they get paid a reasonable wage, although there are plenty of arguments for it to be higher.

Cleaners, would you like them to be paid as much as nurses? If so, why go to uni for 3 years to get a degree in nursing, when for no outlay in time and effort you could become a cleaner.

There are always going to be better and worse paid jobs and the ones who have the better paid jobs will always be able to afford more.

For some reason you seem convinced that not having an annual holiday means you're in poverty. It doesn't. The annual holiday is a relatively new phenomena, 100 years ago tourists didn't exist, 50 years ago they went to the local seaside resort for a few days, now we jet off to continent.

I'm not convinced either that the survey is accurate, 7 million people can't afford a holiday, i'd like to see the raw data before I believe a huge number like that.

I agree with Tony, if a cleaner doesn't like the wage they get, they need to retrain and get a job that requires some sort of skill.

 

I'm loosing track of your point Apollo, firstly it was that not being able to afford a holiday means you're living in poverty, but now it seems to have changed to be that the minimum wage is too low?

[nick2 10]

I haven't been on a proper holliday for years (I don't count going to see my dad in Filey for the weekend as a holliday), I have a limited amount of money and I've got better things to spend it on than going on holliday.

Do I feel I I'm entitled to a holliday, no.

Do I think my life is terrible because I can't go on holliday, no.

Do I think someone else should pay for my holliday, no.

[Zamo 10]

People who do jobs that requires no skill, and can be done by just about anyone, will always be the worst paid.

 

Those will skills, talents, drive, ambition and who work hard will always be paid the most.

 

We don't know we are born in this country. To defining poverty as not being able to go on holiday is almost offensive.

[Mo 10]

Cast your eyes over this little lot

 

If like me you've never claimed benefits you'll find it a real eye opener. Tot all that little lot up and you'll wonder why you ever went to work

[chickmonk 10]

Originally posted by Mo

Cast your eyes over this little lot

 

If like me you've never claimed benefits you'll find it a real eye opener. Tot all that little lot up and you'll wonder why you ever went to work

 

Not quite sure what I'm supposed to be looking at?

 

Chicken Monkey x

[Bago 10]

I apologise first for not reading the whole thread in its entirety.

After reading a few posts, I just want to make the point that, statistics are only as useful as the paper that it's written on sometimes. i.e. take stats with a pinch of salt. It can sometimes be misleading and sometimes they should be looked at objectively.

 

Hm... 1 in 3 families. Have those families also taken the advantage of the cheap airlines which are in its abundance these days in Europe ? A new one opened in Doncaster last year. I am an avid traveller who uses those airlines a lot. Sometimes the cost can be significantly reduced if say families travel at off-peak time. i.e. mid-week, and term-time. Or if they book early. The cost can vary, and it can be reduced, say if ppl went as a big group. Many ppl do that too. Hire a cottage and share the costs.

[fox20thc 10]

Originally posted by Mo

Cast your eyes over this little lot

 

If like me you've never claimed benefits you'll find it a real eye opener. Tot all that little lot up and you'll wonder why you ever went to work

 

quite funny that you presume that people would be entitled to all these benefits.

 

Point of fact, for every 'benefit' a person may be entitled to its value would be deducted from the first one. If you get a small pension and income support the IS is reduced so that the pensioner gets the minimum they are required to live on.

 

I myself along with alot of other people for example qualify for WFTC. The system used to be that I submitted exactly what I had earnt every six months to ensure that I didn't receive any more/less than entitled to.

 

The system has now changed. A figure is allowed within a banded system say (£8k -10.500) now if a person is on 8k they get exactly the same amount as a person on 10.5k. So this does bring about inequalities. This comes to light when after a 12 month period they do a return on your income and hit you with an over payment and claw it all back as quickly as poss.

 

Luckily I have never been in a position where I have been overpaid.

 

I drone on......... the point being anyone who can negotiate the form filling and hoops jumped through to qualify for anything they deserve a degree in social economics never mind a giro!

 

I saw a piece where 3 university grads of maths tried to work out how much someone would be given in benefits based on info supplied. They all came up with a different figure!

[Mo 10]

Originally posted by fox20thc

 

:I drone on......... the point being anyone who can negotiate the form filling and hoops jumped through to qualify for anything they deserve a degree in social economics never mind a giro!

 

I

 

I think that you will find that there is a certain section of society armed with knowledge to degree level standard about what they can and can't claim.

 

On the topic of childcare expenses .... you can claim up to £300 per WEEK if you have 2 children. That is a wage in itself. So when we talk about low incomes we have to bear in mind the freebies that people who are an income just above the cut off point have to pay for.

 

PS and don't forget about all those other lovely allowances like housing benefit, council tax benefit to name but two.

[fox20thc 10]

Originally posted by Mo

I think that you will find that there is a certain section of society armed with knowledge to degree level standard about what they can and can't claim.

 

On the topic of childcare expenses .... you can claim up to £300 per WEEK if you have 2 children. That is a wage in itself. Sowhen we talk about low income we have to bear in mind at the freebies that people who are an income just above the cut off point have to pay for.

 

PS and don't forget about all those other lovely allowances like housing benefit, council tax benefit to name but two.

 

I think you will find that unless you are on a non working benefit such as income support, you are not entitled to housing benefit or council tax benefit.

 

In addition regarding childcare expenses they are open to many people who are working. BUT only if BOTH parents are working, and only 'up to' 70% of the costs.