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O.K. then what or who is God?

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Ha ha! ... My secret message was correct!

 

I did, as I stated in the last post, know you were going to say that .... Kinda obvious.

 

Now go back and look at my posts if you can be bothered. You will probably be surprised to note that not a single one of them is about atheism.

 

You are insecure in your faith, by the way. Psychology 101. I've told you before.

 

ETA, next day:

 

Look Janie, I know you think I'm just out to have a go at you and that's probably a reasonable deduction given our many exchanges but, I assure you, that's not simply the case.

 

If you go back to our first ever exchanges, if they're still viewable, you'll see it started with me asking you a couple of simple questions about why you believe stuff. Your evasive responses led me to conclude that, like pretty much every religious person I've ever engaged with, you don't actually know what you believe. (Before you default to your usual cry of "insult", note that I'm talking about me here, not you; I am trying to explain my thought process to you). Since then there have been a few jibes, I admit, though not as many as you think - you have responded to a number of genuine questions and concerns from me as insults, a fact which has reinforced by underlying view regarding faith/delusion (still talking about myself here, remember).

 

When I posted my agreement to Richard's point I knew you would respond by turning the comment round to apply to atheists. I knew because it was the obvious response. I probably would have made the same response myself if I was in your position. You can see, above though, that I had considered the response before I posted the question and had deduced that it wasn't valid for the reason pointed out at the start of this post. As an aside, I always consider potential responses when I make a point on here or in real life, do you?

 

Anyway, I hope that helps you understand a little about my thinking here. I'll provide an example now, to illustrate why I think the way I do and why I was keen to show my agreement with Richard. It's some questions:

 

 

You are being a little more polite then usual and i appreciate that, however again you mention my faith is insecure and don't understand how you deduce that from any comments i've made.

I can only think that i may have given that impression before, perhaps it was on another thread when i said that faith can be weak at some stages depending on how we are feeling and what is going going on in our life at the time,having admitted that i really can't think of a time when my own faiith has been completely absent at any length of time its only been a transient experience,but there are people who have experienced the so called "crisis of faith" particularly when something painful has happened to them.

I only mention this again because of your repeated suggestions my faith is insecure.

 

Actually i would rather have the odd doubt about some aspect of my faith occasionally then be rigid and too certain of everything,because spiritual growth would fail to develop then.I believe it was the one time sceptic St Augustine who said "Doubt is an element of faith"

 

Referring to those "simple questions" you say i havn't answered(or have been evasive about) which have appeared to you to mean i don't know what i believe in, are puzzling me, because i know exactly what i believe.

I believe in the existence of Christ and his teachings i've been asked why before and i've explained.If i kept repeating myself on that subject i would appear to be sermonising which i prefer to avoid,so if i appear to have been evasive with some of your questions that is more likely to be the reason.Another obvious reason is that i am not in a position to provide all the answers to what is written in the New testement myself when some of what is written is ambiguous.

It re-introduces that subject about faith being more to a person then what has been written or taught,and is often a result of a persons indivual life experiences,the aspect of faith which you and some other atheists refer to as delusional.

 

Concerning the responses,i don't always consider potential responses from other posters myself,i sometimes reply with responses that could be percieved as thoughtless,i've realised that later sometimes.

 

In terms of insults i over-react sometimes :hihi: but i'm smart enough to detect whether an insult is meant as malice or contention.If its the first of those two i usually ignore the post.

 

---------- Post added 08-12-2012 at 22:05 ----------

 

 

You said, earlier in the thread, that you are hoping to meet your loved ones again after dying. Can you tell me how that meeting will take place, where it will happen and what you are going to do together for eternity or however long you consider this afterlife will last?

 

How can anyone possibly answer that? :huh:

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Ha ha! ... My secret message was correct!

 

I did, as I stated in the last post, know you were going to say that .... Kinda obvious.

 

Now go back and look at my posts if you can be bothered. You will probably be surprised to note that not a single one of them is about atheism.

 

You are insecure in your faith, by the way. Psychology 101. I've told you before.

 

ETA, next day:

 

Look Janie, I know you think I'm just out to have a go at you and that's probably a reasonable deduction given our many exchanges but, I assure you, that's not simply the case.

 

If you go back to our first ever exchanges, if they're still viewable, you'll see it started with me asking you a couple of simple questions about why you believe stuff. Your evasive responses led me to conclude that, like pretty much every religious person I've ever engaged with, you don't actually know what you believe. (Before you default to your usual cry of "insult", note that I'm talking about me here, not you; I am trying to explain my thought process to you). Since then there have been a few jibes, I admit, though not as many as you think - you have responded to a number of genuine questions and concerns from me as insults, a fact which has reinforced by underlying view regarding faith/delusion (still talking about myself here, remember).

 

When I posted my agreement to Richard's point I knew you would respond by turning the comment round to apply to atheists. I knew because it was the obvious response. I probably would have made the same response myself if I was in your position. You can see, above though, that I had considered the response before I posted the question and had deduced that it wasn't valid for the reason pointed out at the start of this post. As an aside, I always consider potential responses when I make a point on here or in real life, do you?

 

Anyway, I hope that helps you understand a little about my thinking here. I'll provide an example now, to illustrate why I think the way I do and why I was keen to show my agreement with Richard. It's some questions:

 

You said, earlier in the thread, that you are hoping to meet your loved ones again after dying. Can you tell me how that meeting will take place, where it will happen and what you are going to do together for eternity or however long you consider this afterlife will last?

 

You don't half hound her

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I always imagined God as a sort of wispy cloud of energy that floated around the universe.

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I always imagined God as a sort of wispy cloud of energy that floated around the universe.

 

Was it capable of anything?

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Was it capable of anything?

 

Do you mean 'Is it capable of anything?'.

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Do you mean "imagine" ?

 

Do you mean 'Did you mean imagine?'.

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You don't half hound her

 

That's a strange comment, Roots, especially since this little bit of interaction between the two of us started when she replied to a post I had made in response to Richard...

 

---------- Post added 09-12-2012 at 00:45 ----------

 

You are being a little more polite then usual and i appreciate that, however again you mention my faith is insecure and don't understand how you deduce that from any comments i've made.

I can only think that i may have given that impression before, perhaps it was on another thread when i said that faith can be weak at some stages depending on how we are feeling and what is going going on in our life at the time,having admitted that i really can't think of a time when my own faiith has been completely absent at any length of time its only been a transient experience,but there are people who have experienced the so called "crisis of faith" particularly when something painful has happened to them.

I only mention this again because of your repeated suggestions my faith is insecure.

 

Actually i would rather have the odd doubt about some aspect of my faith occasionally then be rigid and too certain of everything,because spiritual growth would fail to develop then.I believe it was the one time sceptic St Augustine who said "Doubt is an element of faith"

 

Referring to those "simple questions" you say i havn't answered(or have been evasive about) which have appeared to you to mean i don't know what i believe in, are puzzling me, because i know exactly what i believe.

I believe in the existence of Christ and his teachings i've been asked why before and i've explained.If i kept repeating myself on that subject i would appear to be sermonising which i prefer to avoid,so if i appear to have been evasive with some of your questions that is more likely to be the reason.Another obvious reason is that i am not in a position to provide all the answers to what is written in the New testement myself when some of what is written is ambiguous.

It re-introduces that subject about faith being more to a person then what has been written or taught,and is often a result of a persons indivual life experiences,the aspect of faith which you and some other atheists refer to as delusional.

 

Concerning the responses,i don't always consider potential responses from other posters myself,i sometimes reply with responses that could be percieved as thoughtless,i've realised that later sometimes.

 

In terms of insults i over-react sometimes :hihi: but i'm smart enough to detect whether an insult is meant as malice or contention.If its the first of those two i usually ignore the post.

 

 

Thanks for the long answer there, Janie. I appreciate your taking the time; but:

 

How can anyone possibly answer that? :huh:

 

Exactly! It seems you don't know the answer to what it is you believe in.

 

(At this point, in the light of Rootsy's comment I will add that by "you" I mean religious people in general - Janie being the one I am engaging with at the moment).

 

Thanks for the non-evasive response, though. So, taking it a little further back, then: why do you believe there is an afterlife?

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That's a strange comment, Roots, especially since this little bit of interaction between the two of us started when she replied to a post I had made in response to Richard...

 

---------- Post added 09-12-2012 at 00:45 ----------

 

 

Thanks for the long answer there, Janie. I appreciate your taking the time; but:

 

 

 

Exactly! It seems you don't know the answer to what it is you believe in.

 

(At this point, in the light of Rootsy's comment I will add that by "you" I mean religious people in general - Janie being the one I am engaging with at the moment).

 

Thanks for the non-evasive response, though. So, taking it a little further back, then: why do you believe there is an afterlife?

 

I'm religious!

 

In all fairness to Janie regardless of whether I agree with her belief or not she at least as the honesty to say 'I don't know'.

 

The Theists I was referring to in my post are the ones that claim they do know and yet miraculously go quiet when questioned about that knowledge. They're the ones who's faith I would seriously question. I think having belief and the honesty to claim you don't know all the answers is a good thing personally.

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That's a strange comment, Roots, especially since this little bit of interaction between the two of us started when she replied to a post I had made in response to Richard...

Well, a brief example is this...

<snip>

You said, earlier in the thread, that you are hoping to meet your loved ones again after dying. Can you tell me how that meeting will take place, where it will happen and what you are going to do together for eternity or however long you consider this afterlife will last?

I'm sure you know the difference beween hoping for something and claiming to have knowledge of something.

 

You continue with this...

<snip>

 

Exactly! It seems you don't know the answer to what it is you believe in.

 

 

(At this point, in the light of Rootsy's comment I will add that by "you" I mean religious people in general - Janie being the one I am engaging with at the moment).

Thanks for the non-evasive response, though. So, taking it a little further back, then: why do you believe there is an afterlife?

 

I'm sure you also know the difference between belief, hope and knowledge

Edited by RootsBooster
sorted out quotation errors

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Heh, did you mean "Did you mean 'Is it capable of anything?' " :lol:

 

Yes .

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