O.K. then what or who is God?

[janie48 98]

Ah yes, the famous christian Adolf Hitler.

.

 

Honestly Redwhine,how can you possibly equate Christianity with Hitler.The fact that he was christened in the Catholic church means nothing, getting baptised and attending church would have been part of the culture and tradition of the time,he was born in a region of Austria where Catholicism was the major religion.

In adult life he hated religion with a passion,and his hatred of Jews and desire to rid the nation of them didn't stop there,his desire was to destroy Christianity too,only he was so clever he deceived the people by getting Christians on his side pretending he was one of them, switching from Lutheran to Catholic depending who was the audience then proceeding to spread lies and propaganda,which was part of the agenda,using his skill of manipulation to gain support for the evil regime.

 

Here's what he really thought about Christianity.

.http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html

 

As i said before millions saw through him and lost their lives in the death camps because of it,including thousands of priests who were arrested in their churches after being spied on by the SS.

 

No Hitler wasn't a Christian,or even an athiest in the true sense,so its an insult to put him in either category in my view.

 

Thankfully his evil regime failed with the help of people from other nations and a great many of those people were Christians!

[PaliRichard 10]

It would appear that they haven't covered everything in the Alpha course then for some reason.Do it the other way,as I did then and read the bible but I had assumed that the Alpha course would cover it all.

 

I refer you to this

I'm hazarding a guess that you will pretend you've not seen these questions[/Quote]

 

In relation to this

 

At what point do you suggest we stop researching something we have started researching?

 

Or do you presume we should remain ignorant as the neanderthal were? If so why?

 

So you have a choice of questions, you either think we should remain ignorant, and the question is why do you think this?

 

or

 

You think there should be some research, in relation to that the question is how much do you think there should be? (and once started at what point should we 'draw the line' and stop).

 

Also while I'm here who are the neanderthal's? They were a different species to us yet they had more cognitive power than 'animals', many scientists think we interbred with them (and there are some people still around who have Neanderthal DNA) so where do they fit in to the Biblical account of things?[/Quote]

 

Why are you avoiding direct questions?

 

Why would you assume the Alpha course would 'cover it'? (Note, this is a question, like the above, they all require answers, ignoring them is not answering)

 

Someone also asked,why believe.Well it's the only thing that makes sense to me,and even if you don't,it's still brilliant stuff[/Quote]

 

Let's analyize this.

 

Someone mentioned hitler. Well lets just take only 1 commandment to that,I shall not kill. If everyone in Germany had said that,where would hitler have got? Nowhere and so on with all potential wars right back to when it was written,and there would be no money wasted on defence because it wouldn't need to exist[/Quote]

 

So the Bible (and/or Christianity) is the only thing that makes sense, and you cite

I shall not kill[/Quote] as evidence for it being the only thing that makes sense.

 

You then state

 

As the wise man in India put it,"the trouble with an eye for an eye is, all the world ends up blind"[/Quote]

 

the wise man was Gandhi, he was a Hindu (he also claimed in his autobiography 'My experiments with truth' I think it was called, that the Dhammapada (that's a Buddhist text) was one of the greatest sources of wisdom in the world)

 

So by your own evidence you have in fact shown that the statement

Well it's the only thing that makes sense to me[/Quote] is flawed, because you think the wisdom of a Hindu is also worth mentioning, so there are at least two religions that makes sense to you, if we assume that you consider Gandhi a trustworthy source of wisdom (which we must as you have quoted him) then by association we should consider you think his praise of Buddhist wisdom also makes sense.

 

So we can assume you find Buddhist and Hindu wisdom also makes sense and yet you claim Christianity/the Bible is

the only thing that makes sense to me[/Quote]

 

Care to respond, or are you just going to pretend I don't exist like you usually do when it comes to my questions.

[redwhine 10]

Honestly Redwhine,how can you possibly equate Christianity with Hitler.

When did I do that? One was a human being and the other is mass belief in the same imaginary friend.

 

Hitler was a lifelong Roman Catholic. The church is testimony to this; despite the holocaust, etc., only ONE leading Nazi was excommunicated. Can you guess what he was excommunicated for?

 

He married a protestant!

 

"It should be noted that the only Nazi to be formally excommunicated from the church was Joseph Goebbels -- on the basis that he had married a Protestant, Magda Goebbels."

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity

[gotone 10]

I have been thinking long and hard and I still cannot find any solution to the God problem.

Now myself and religion have never mixed as I view all religions as little more than fairy tales expanded by people who on the whole make themselves very wealthy in the process.

No my problem is when I say wake up in a morning with the sun streaming in through the window and I lay there thinking what is life all about I then pinch my self just to make sure I am real .

That is when the what is all this about bit clicks in .

Now I have read all the Darwin theory about how we came out of the sea and grew tails then started standing up on two hind legs etc but it just does not make sense, I mean why only us why not cats or dogs or donkeys etc how is it only the human species that evolved this way.

And so then I go back to the God bit I mean is it possible that It all happened in a way that even today we still know nothing about is it possible that we are the off spring of some intergalactic visitors to Earth who after a quick fling on Earth decided that this World was not for them and shot off to pastures new forgetting about this Planet for ever.

Now we have computers, space ships ,radio waves, and technology beyond belief and we are no nearer even today actually discovering .

Where did we come from, Why are we here, What happens to us when we die, and who or what is God.

 

Gods an Englishman

 

[janie48 98]

When did I do that? One was a human being and the other is mass belief in the same imaginary friend.

 

Hitler was a lifelong Roman Catholic. The church is testimony to this; despite the holocaust, etc., only ONE leading Nazi was excommunicated. Can you guess what he was excommunicated for?

 

He married a protestant!

 

"It should be noted that the only Nazi to be formally excommunicated from the church was Joseph Goebbels -- on the basis that he had married a Protestant, Magda Goebbels."

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity

 

I'm certainly not defending all actions of church authority,i don't understand why they make the decisions they do,and neither do many of their members who speak out and protest against a number of issues.Whatever you may think they are not all sheep who follow their religions without question.Thats probably why so many changes have been made in the last 50 years or so,and there will be more to come,all for the better i hope.

 

I read not long ago where the Pope at the time of Hitlers leadership has been exonerated of the accusations that he has sometimes been accused of...such as not helping Jews and speaking out against the fascist regime.

 

Documents and letters from that time have proved that he helped save the lives of thousands of Jews,but all that had to be kept secret because of Italy's alliance with Germany,and because of the threat of more lives being put in danger.

 

Many Jews have acknowledged that the church protected and helped save them,some Jewish writers have written about it and have said if it wasn't for the church many more lives would have been lost.

[Ryedo40 10]

In adult life he[Hitler] hated religion with a passion,

 

and

 

his desire was to destroy Christianity too

 

Janie, despite what you've been told, or what you've found on that awful apologetics website, Hitler did not hate Christianity with a passion.

 

Just to correct you:

 

Hitler disliked how the once intolerant Christianity of the past - the one that didn't tolerate other ideas and philosophies - was becoming. He saw that old style Christianity as the Christianity that made Europe strong - and blamed Jews, liberals & those with other philosophies for undermining that. He believed a weak Christianity meant a weak Europe - and that without Christianity, civilisation would collapse. This is why he attempted to create one unified Church and a new strong variant of Christianity that would "guarantee" the survival of Europe and Christianity.

 

switching from Lutheran to Catholic depending who was the audience

 

While Hitler was a Catholic, he did have protestant leanings - and saw himself as some sort of reformer(like Martin Luther). Like most politicians, he used his position to gain support from both groups. But that doesn't mean he was not a Christian.

 

Here's what he really thought about Christianity.

.http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html

 

The source that website uses is from a book called Table Talk. Historians don't trust its content because the French and English translations mistranslate and omit - and in some cases purposely - the more authentic German content.

 

For example, one of the quotes from Table Talk on that website:

 

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ."

 

The more authentic German translation says something completely different:

 

"I have never found pleasure in maltreating others, even if I know it isn't possible to maintain oneself in the world without force. Life is granted only to those who fight the hardest. It is the law of life: Defend yourself!

The time in which we live has the appearance of the collapse of this idea. It can still take 100 or 200 years. I am sorry that, like Moses, I can only see the Promised Land from a distance."

 

Hitler never said "Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity"

 

And you'll find that is the case for the majority(if not all) of quotes where Hitler is claimed to have despised Christianity.

 

All that can really be said about Hitler is that he, like countless Christians throughout history, criticised certain elements of the Church and its doctrine; and, like countless Christians throughout history, didn't mind getting rid of the opposition.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Ryedo40

[janie48 98]

and

 

 

 

Janie, despite what you've been told, or what you've found on that awful apologetics website, Hitler did not hate Christianity with a passion.

 

Just to correct you:

 

Hitler disliked how the once intolerant Christianity of the past - the one that didn't tolerate other ideas and philosophies - was becoming. He saw that old style Christianity as the Christianity that made Europe strong - and blamed Jews, liberals & those with other philosophies for undermining that. He believed a weak Christianity meant a weak Europe - and that without Christianity, civilisation would collapse. This is why he attempted to create one unified Church and a new strong variant of Christianity that would "guarantee" the survival of Europe and Christianity.

 

 

 

While Hitler was a Catholic, he did have protestant leanings - and saw himself as some sort of reformer(like Martin Luther). Like most politicians, he used his position to gain support from both groups. But that doesn't mean he was not a Christian.

 

 

 

The source that website uses is from a book called Table Talk. Historians don't trust its content because the French and English translations mistranslate - and in some cases purposely - the more authentic German content.

 

For example, one of the quotes from Table Talk on that website:

 

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ."

 

The more authentic German translation says something completely different:

 

"I have never found pleasure in maltreating others, even if I know it isn't possible to maintain oneself in the world without force. Life is granted only to those who fight the hardest. It is the law of life: Defend yourself!

The time in which we live has the appearance of the collapse of this idea. It can still take 100 or 200 years. I am sorry that, like Moses, I can only see the Promised Land from a distance."

 

Hitler never said "Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity"

 

And you'll find that is the case for the majority of quotes where Hitler is claimed to have despised Christianity.

 

All that can really be said about Hitler is that he, like countless Christians throughout history, criticised certain elements of the Church and its doctrine; and, like countless Christians throughout history, didn't getting rid of the opposition.

Seems to me the man was full of contradiction.What is clear though, is that Hitler was a confused" nutter" a clever one though depending how you look at it,but definitely a psychopathic mass murderer.

 

With regard to the "apologetics website"wouldn't you agree that whatever we read on the internet or in the media especially regarding history( even twentieth century) with people still alive from the time, is full of contradictions, depending on what we read...i certainly find that,so at the end of the day are we choosing to believe which, who and what book or text we want to believe perhaps?

 

Having said that i do question details with regard to religion,and don't mind looking at and listening to alternative views,it may change my mind about certain aspects of religion(as it has on some issues over the years) but it doesn't take away my faith because i believe you can have that without religion,as many people do.

[flamingjimmy 10]

In adult life [Hitler] hated religion with a passion

 

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

-Adolf Hitler 1941

 

Odd choice of words for a man who hated religion.

[janie48 98]

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."

-Adolf Hitler 1941

 

Odd choice of words for a man who hated religion.

Have you read any of the Hitler quotes i posted on what he said about religion as well as any of my earlier comments,i doubt you have.

[flamingjimmy 10]

Have you read any of the Hitler quotes i posted on what he said about religion as well as any of my earlier comments,i doubt you have.

Yes and I've read them all before as well, I get tired when this comes up, at least you didn't try to pretend he was an atheist.

 

Good on you for doubting though, if only you'd extend that skepticism to that vile book you consider holy.

[janie48 98]

With reference to what i mentioned on post 413 about the Pope connection,i didn't go into much detail about that.I've since found this link which will explain what i meant.

 

 

http://popepiusxiiandthejews.blogspot.co.uk/

[janie48 98]

Yes and I've read them all before as well, I get tired when this comes up, at least you didn't try to pretend he was an atheist.

 

Good on you for doubting though, if only you'd extend that skepticism to that vile book you consider holy.

Well don't read them then if they make you tired,no ones twisting your arm to do so.

 

As usual you always have to resort to insults.