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Coppen Estates. . . .Sheffield

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Hi,

 

I am dealing with a similar group operating in the North West area: Compton.

 

The house insurance is due for renewal today (April 1st) and Compton have been in touch over the last fortnight and asked me to move the policy to Zurich Insurance at approximately 2.5x the current annual premium. Last April 1st it was moved to the current insurer at their request as it was a reasonable premium. I would prefer to stay with the current insurer.

 

1. Therefore, is the 'relevant date' within the meaning of the CLRA the renewal date, ie. April 1st 2019 (today)? 

 

2. Does this mean if I submit a correct notice within the next 14 days then I do not have to pay them anything, including a 'consent fee'?

 

3. What would be the approximate cost of asking a solicitor to do this (the notice) for us? I would happily pay the 'consent fee' to someone else if I could rely on it being correct. I have some legal training and know that it isn't easy for a lay person to get a notice correct.

 

4. What is the penalty for not insuring with their preferred insurer? Can they insist we scrap the policy we have taken out and change to Zurich? Can they realistically get the lease to be forfeited? 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

db6279

 

1. Yes, as I understand it the 'relevant date' is the renewal date.

 

2.  Yes, the notice frees you from any covenant in your lease allowing them to direct your insurer. 

 

3. Probably more than the consent fee. As cyclone says, use the template (same one here as a pdf perhaps a bit easier to copy and paste http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/3097/pdfs/uksi_20043097_en.pdf). I'm not sure if "it isn't easy for a lay person to get a notice correct" but Compton will probably try to tell you that some small procedural error makes it invalid...don't listen to them. Send it recorded post. 

 

4. Unless your lease sets something specific out then no fees are due. Issue the notice and do not pay any spurious 'admin' fees. They cannot compel you to insure with their preferred insurer provided you exercise your rights under Section 164 correctly (point 2 + 3).  As for forfeiting the lease, I'd be surprised but it'll depend on how the lease is written. If it's getting to that point. you'd probably you need qualified legal advice. https://www.lease-advice.org/ provide free advice.  Read back over the Coppen threads on this forum, Jeffrey Shaw has set the process out several times (this is where I discovered it). 

 

Caveat: THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE, just my own experience of using Section 164. if in doubt seek qualified opinion. 

Edited by iwbsheff

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Does anyone (paging Jeffrey Shaw!) know if a lease extension affects the enfranchisement of a house? Eg if a previous owner had extended the lease by 50 years, would the cost of reversion be based on the original term, or the extended term?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bonofido said:

Does anyone (paging Jeffrey Shaw!) know if a lease extension affects the enfranchisement of a house? Eg if a previous owner had extended the lease by 50 years, would the cost of reversion be based on the original term, or the extended term?

The effect of the first lease extension, if it's statutory (= in accordance with the 1967 Act), is this:

1. The term held by T is increased by 50yrs.

2. The ground rent currently payable is unchanged until the old lease's expiry date.

3. But it then rises- and again after 25yrs- to a market rent. This can be hundreds or even thousands of pounds each year- hence an extended house lease might be rejected by a prospective mortgagee (lender) as not being  good and marketable security.

4. The valuation procedures for enfranchisement (= buying the freehold reversion) are similar for those on an unextended lease BUT:

a. of course based on the newly-extended term, treating its expiry as 50yrs further away; and

b. taking account of the statutory market rent increases.

Edited by Jeffrey Shaw

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4 hours ago, Jeffrey Shaw said:

The effect of the first lease extension, if it's statutory (= in accordance with the 1967 Act), is this:

1. The term held by T is increased by 50yrs.

2. The ground rent currently payable is unchanged until the old lease's expiry date.

3. But it then rises- and again after 25yrs- to a market rent. This can be hundreds or even thousands of pounds each year- hence an extended house lease might be rejected by a prospective mortgagee (lender) as not being  good and marketable security.

4. The valuation procedures for enfranchisement (= buying the freehold reversion) are similar for those on an unextended lease BUT:

a. of course based on the newly-extended term, treating its expiry as 50yrs further away; and

b. taking account of the statutory market rent increases.

Ah, so the effect of the lease extension only keeps the ground rent same for the remainder of the original term?

 

So, for buying the freehold reversion, If a house had an extended lease with current unexpired term of 78 years (without extension it would be 28),  would the marriage value be based an 78 years or 28?

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It should be based on 78yrs. MV applies (and T pays 50% of it) unless the unexpired term > 80yrs. Here's s.9(1D) and s.9(1E), with my underlinings:

 

(1D) Where, in determining the price payable for a house and premises in accordance with this section, there falls to be taken into account any marriage value arising by virtue of the coalescence of the freehold and leasehold interests, the share of the marriage value to which the tenant is to be regarded as being entitled shall be one-half of it.

 

(1E) But where at the relevant time the unexpired term of the tenant’s tenancy exceeds eighty years, the marriage value shall be taken to be nil.

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Posted (edited)

Hi

I am in the process of buying a property that is leasehold. Coppen Estates hold the freehold reversion. My solicitor is not all that familiar with leasehold as there are very few in the area I am now living.

The leasehold is 800 years from 1965 at a ground rent of 14.00 per year,

I have read through the threads regarding the s164 notice in order to use my own preference for insurer and intend taking the advice offered. I am however unsure of a couple of issues. The property had an extension built (probably in the 1980s)

but there is no record of any permissions been requested or granted by Coppen estates. My solicitor thinks that as it is long standing there is nothing to worry about. The other issue I have is that the property requires quite a bit of renovation work which will include moving a door, new windows etc.  Will this require permission from Coppen estates? If this is the case would I be better getting the current owners to start the procedure to purchase the freehold and pass this on to myself as a condition of sale?

I am obviously worried about delaying the sale further and losing my own buyer.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Edited by Lentil
mis spelt word

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10 hours ago, Lentil said:

Hi

I am in the process of buying a property that is leasehold. Coppen Estates hold the freehold reversion. My solicitor is not all that familiar with leasehold as there are very few in the area I am now living.

The leasehold is 800 years from 1965 at a ground rent of 14.00 per year,

I have read through the threads regarding the s164 notice in order to use my own preference for insurer and intend taking the advice offered. I am however unsure of a couple of issues. The property had an extension built (probably in the 1980s)

but there is no record of any permissions been requested or granted by Coppen estates. My solicitor thinks that as it is long standing there is nothing to worry about. The other issue I have is that the property requires quite a bit of renovation work which will include moving a door, new windows etc.  Will this require permission from Coppen estates? If this is the case would I be better getting the current owners to start the procedure to purchase the freehold and pass this on to myself as a condition of sale?

I am obviously worried about delaying the sale further and losing my own buyer.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Get yourself another solicitor? What sort of conveyancing solicitor doesn't understand leasehold?

Maybe too late to change altogether but get him help by getting a solicitor who knows what they're doing. It'll cost you more but will be money well spent should you fall foul of anything later on.

He's there to cover your back, just thinking you'll be OK doesn't cut it, you need to be sure.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Lentil said:

Hi

I am in the process of buying a property that is leasehold. Coppen Estates hold the freehold reversion. My solicitor is not all that familiar with leasehold as there are very few in the area I am now living.

The leasehold is 800 years from 1965 at a ground rent of 14.00 per year,

I have read through the threads regarding the s164 notice in order to use my own preference for insurer and intend taking the advice offered. I am however unsure of a couple of issues. The property had an extension built (probably in the 1980s)

but there is no record of any permissions been requested or granted by Coppen estates. My solicitor thinks that as it is long standing there is nothing to worry about. The other issue I have is that the property requires quite a bit of renovation work which will include moving a door, new windows etc.  Will this require permission from Coppen estates? If this is the case would I be better getting the current owners to start the procedure to purchase the freehold and pass this on to myself as a condition of sale?

I am obviously worried about delaying the sale further and losing my own buyer.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Interesting thread about Coppen Estates, stressful time buying/selling houses, take care of yourself and make sure your back is covered.

Edited by Bash Street

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Its better to  understand  your situation  that if you are  the  leaseholder   of a leasehold house,   you already own the lease. 

 

You should be wanting to buy the freehold title   and  terminate  the leasehold title .

 

After  2 years as the leaseholder  , you can make a  compulsory purchase  the freehold title  which is a right given   under the 1967 L& T Act.

 

For 999 year leases and low ground rent, you can probably make a compulsory purchase  of  the freehold title for  around  18 x annual  ground rent

 

For your ground rent  at  £14 p.a  for 800 years lease , I would expect you could make an offer around £250 to buy the freehold title.

 

I suggest you look up some past  decisions  by LVT/FTT   for price to pay for freehold title  for house  under 999 years lease  by  enfranchisement process    under the 1967 Act

 

The Housing Minister has announced plans to terminate " leasehold  tenure"  for  houses  but we don't don't know  when this will happen.  but you can push your local MP  to keep up the pressure  for this to happen.

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