Coppen Estates. . . .Sheffield

[Lentil 0]

Hi

I am in the process of buying a property that is leasehold. Coppen Estates hold the freehold reversion. My solicitor is not all that familiar with leasehold as there are very few in the area I am now living.

The leasehold is 800 years from 1965 at a ground rent of 14.00 per year,

I have read through the threads regarding the s164 notice in order to use my own preference for insurer and intend taking the advice offered. I am however unsure of a couple of issues. The property had an extension built (probably in the 1980s)

but there is no record of any permissions been requested or granted by Coppen estates. My solicitor thinks that as it is long standing there is nothing to worry about. The other issue I have is that the property requires quite a bit of renovation work which will include moving a door, new windows etc.  Will this require permission from Coppen estates? If this is the case would I be better getting the current owners to start the procedure to purchase the freehold and pass this on to myself as a condition of sale?

I am obviously worried about delaying the sale further and losing my own buyer.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Lentil
mis spelt word

[Bash Street 10]

10 hours ago, Lentil said:

Hi

I am in the process of buying a property that is leasehold. Coppen Estates hold the freehold reversion. My solicitor is not all that familiar with leasehold as there are very few in the area I am now living.

The leasehold is 800 years from 1965 at a ground rent of 14.00 per year,

I have read through the threads regarding the s164 notice in order to use my own preference for insurer and intend taking the advice offered. I am however unsure of a couple of issues. The property had an extension built (probably in the 1980s)

but there is no record of any permissions been requested or granted by Coppen estates. My solicitor thinks that as it is long standing there is nothing to worry about. The other issue I have is that the property requires quite a bit of renovation work which will include moving a door, new windows etc.  Will this require permission from Coppen estates? If this is the case would I be better getting the current owners to start the procedure to purchase the freehold and pass this on to myself as a condition of sale?

I am obviously worried about delaying the sale further and losing my own buyer.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Get yourself another solicitor? What sort of conveyancing solicitor doesn't understand leasehold?

Maybe too late to change altogether but get him help by getting a solicitor who knows what they're doing. It'll cost you more but will be money well spent should you fall foul of anything later on.

He's there to cover your back, just thinking you'll be OK doesn't cut it, you need to be sure.

[Bash Street 10]

10 hours ago, Lentil said:

Hi

I am in the process of buying a property that is leasehold. Coppen Estates hold the freehold reversion. My solicitor is not all that familiar with leasehold as there are very few in the area I am now living.

The leasehold is 800 years from 1965 at a ground rent of 14.00 per year,

I have read through the threads regarding the s164 notice in order to use my own preference for insurer and intend taking the advice offered. I am however unsure of a couple of issues. The property had an extension built (probably in the 1980s)

but there is no record of any permissions been requested or granted by Coppen estates. My solicitor thinks that as it is long standing there is nothing to worry about. The other issue I have is that the property requires quite a bit of renovation work which will include moving a door, new windows etc.  Will this require permission from Coppen estates? If this is the case would I be better getting the current owners to start the procedure to purchase the freehold and pass this on to myself as a condition of sale?

I am obviously worried about delaying the sale further and losing my own buyer.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Interesting thread about Coppen Estates, stressful time buying/selling houses, take care of yourself and make sure your back is covered.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Bash Street

[topflat29 10]

Its better to  understand  your situation  that if you are  the  leaseholder   of a leasehold house,   you already own the lease. 

 

You should be wanting to buy the freehold title   and  terminate  the leasehold title .

 

After  2 years as the leaseholder  , you can make a  compulsory purchase  the freehold title  which is a right given   under the 1967 L& T Act.

 

For 999 year leases and low ground rent, you can probably make a compulsory purchase  of  the freehold title for  around  18 x annual  ground rent

 

For your ground rent  at  £14 p.a  for 800 years lease , I would expect you could make an offer around £250 to buy the freehold title.

 

I suggest you look up some past  decisions  by LVT/FTT   for price to pay for freehold title  for house  under 999 years lease  by  enfranchisement process    under the 1967 Act

 

The Housing Minister has announced plans to terminate " leasehold  tenure"  for  houses  but we don't don't know  when this will happen.  but you can push your local MP  to keep up the pressure  for this to happen.

[topflat29 10]

There is a petition ( Abolish Leaseholds ) which needs more signatures to reach 100,000  before it can be discussed in Parliament.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/238071

 

Every leaseholder  of a property in Sheffield and  Yorkshire  ,    Lancashire   and  elsewhere in E&W   should be supporting this petition  and have  the proposal  discussed in Parliament .

 

This is not the "wars of the roses" for control of the throne  of England. 

 

"The Wars of the Roses were a series of English civil wars for control of the throne of England fought between supporters of two rival branches of the royal House of Plantagenet: the House of Lancaster, associated with a red rose, and the House of York, whose symbol was a white rose."

 

This  petition is even more important than the throne of England. 

 

Its about who owns control of your house ?    You ,  who paid for it by a  35 years mortgage  ?   or the freeholder  company ?

[ttparsons 10]

If work was done without permission it is now usual for the buyer’s solicitor to ask the seller to pay for insurance against the freeholder subsequently objecting, although it is extremely unlikely that such an objection should be raised.  If you ask for permission for subsequent development there may be a charge.  This is in addition to planning consent from the local authority.  The leaseholder might charge you a fee just for telling you what they would charge you for the freehold.  Factor all this in to the price you pay for the property.

[Cyclone 10]

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's legal for the freeholder to charge to tell you what they would LIKE to have you pay for it and if you can't agree on a price then you can take it to a tribunal, they don't just get to set a figure and that's your only choice.

[Jeffrey Shaw 89]

On 19/04/2019 at 23:03, Lentil said:

Hi

I am in the process of buying a property that is leasehold. Coppen Estates hold the freehold reversion. My solicitor is not all that familiar with leasehold as there are very few in the area I am now living.

The leasehold is 800 years from 1965 at a ground rent of 14.00 per year,

I have read through the threads regarding the s164 notice in order to use my own preference for insurer and intend taking the advice offered. I am however unsure of a couple of issues. The property had an extension built (probably in the 1980s)

but there is no record of any permissions been requested or granted by Coppen estates. My solicitor thinks that as it is long standing there is nothing to worry about. The other issue I have is that the property requires quite a bit of renovation work which will include moving a door, new windows etc.  Will this require permission from Coppen estates? If this is the case would I be better getting the current owners to start the procedure to purchase the freehold and pass this on to myself as a condition of sale?

I am obviously worried about delaying the sale further and losing my own buyer.

Any advice would be very welcome.

1. As others have posted, dump your solicitor if he/she cannot cope with leasehold conveyancing.

2.  At the very least, and like you suggest, make your leasehold vendor serve a Notice of Claim- before completing the leasehold sale to you- and assign its benefit to you on completion. This will enable you to extract Coppen's freehold reversion without waiting a further two years.

3. If the extension was prior to Coppen's acquiring the freehold reversion, did the then leaseholder obtain consent from Coppen's predecessor? Any such consent would bind Coppen. Even if there was no such consent, a clear ground rent receipt that post-dates the extension would rule-out any enforcement action: s.45(2) of the Law of Property Act 1925. Similarly,  one-off breach of a 'consent' covenant becomes unenforceable after twelve years: Limitation Act 1980.

[Lentil 0]

Thank you very much for all the information.  The estate agents say they will advise the vendor not to serve a notice of claim as it would

A: delay the completion, 

B:  there is nothing wrong with the lease 

😄 they can easily sell the property to someone else. 

They were quite irritated by the delay caused by myself for questioning the permissions on the extension.

 

I have tried phoning Coppen myself a number of times but the call is never answered.

 

It may come down to abandoning the purchase or taking the risk all will be well due to the amount of time that has passed

 

My son is wanting to purchase his freehold (from Coppen) and I have suggested he contact Mr Shaws office as he will be needing a solicitor

 

Again many thanks for your replies.

[geared 302]

Personally I would push for having the notice of claim served, and if the Estate Agent get shirty again tell them to FRO.

 

It saves you two years and you don't need to faf around with this horrid company again, as you've already found out trying to contact them isn't exactly simple.

[Cyclone 10]

15 hours ago, Lentil said:

Thank you very much for all the information.  The estate agents say they will advise the vendor not to serve a notice of claim as it would

A: delay the completion, 

B:  there is nothing wrong with the lease 

😄 they can easily sell the property to someone else. 

They were quite irritated by the delay caused by myself for questioning the permissions on the extension.

 

I have tried phoning Coppen myself a number of times but the call is never answered.

 

It may come down to abandoning the purchase or taking the risk all will be well due to the amount of time that has passed

 

My son is wanting to purchase his freehold (from Coppen) and I have suggested he contact Mr Shaws office as he will be needing a solicitor

 

Again many thanks for your replies.

I think it would be normal for your solicitor to require the vendor to take out an insurance policy against the chance of the extension being deemed unauthorised by Coppen.  These policies typically cost about £50 and seem to be used to cover all manner of things, such as building regs having been breached in the past, and so on.

13 hours ago, geared said:

Personally I would push for having the notice of claim served, and if the Estate Agent get shirty again tell them to FRO.

 

It saves you two years and you don't need to faf around with this horrid company again, as you've already found out trying to contact them isn't exactly simple.

On the other hand an 800 year lease at £14 a year is hardly a problem is it.

It actually sounds a little high if it's Sheffield, I wonder if the original deeds actually state that amount or if Coppen have just bumped it up (illegally) at some point.

I had a similar lease and it cost £2.50/year in Walkley.

[geared 302]

True it's a really good length and you would normally expect the costs to be a couple of quid a year.

 

but if the opportunity comes along to get this company out of your life quickly I'd take it.