Free speech is it dead and buried?

[pininsho 10]

I really hope I've got this wrong but that sounds like you think it should be okay to use racist, homophobic, sexist and any other discriminatory forms of expression so long as nobody is physically hurt. Please don't take offence at this if I am wrong.

 

Please explain why expressing sincerely and deeply held opinions or views, irrespective of how obnoxious or offensive they are, should have anything to do with government or the law.

Edited October 15, 2012 by pininsho

[RosyRat 10]

I can tell you that it was banned at one Burngreave nursery and rainbow sheep had to be used instead. When the person complained that saying rainbow sheep would confuse the kids as there are no rainbow sheep she was then given a warning.

 

Sorry, that's complete rubbish. This story rears its head from time to time - no-one can substantiate it, no nursery or school in Sheffield or anywhere else has banned Baa Baa Black sheep. There's enough hearsay about it to sink a boat & we're all heartily sick of hearing it.

 

People on this thread have posted links to evidence saying this did not happen & still someone will come on here & say that because someone once said it was true, that's what they'll believe. Because that's what they want to believe.

[RosyRat 10]

OK. I'll do that for you. I work in a school. Baa Baa Black Sheep isn't banned.

 

My son goes to a local primary school. It isn't banned there either.

 

My daughter goes to a local pre-school ... not banned there either.

 

It should be, though.

 

 

 

 

 

It's a blatant rip-off of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star

 

 

Love it. Thanks Lockjaw.

[LeMaquis 10]

Please explain why expressing sincerely and deeply held opinions or views, irrespective of how obnoxious or offensive they are, should have anything to do with government or the law.

 

If someone expressed to all your neighbours a sincerely held and deeply held opinion that you and your family are all paedophiles and should be murdered then unless you're a total numpty you'd want protection from the law. Laws prevent people from expressing support for terrorism to help prevent acts of terrorism from being carried out. Laws prevent all kinds of things. If I stood outside your house all night shouting sincerely held and deeply held opinions you'd get annoyed with the above proviso about being a numpty. Get the picture?

[fake 10]

Sorry, that's complete rubbish. This story rears its head from time to time - no-one can substantiate it, no nursery or school in Sheffield or anywhere else has banned Baa Baa Black sheep. There's enough hearsay about it to sink a boat & we're all heartily sick of hearing it.

 

People on this thread have posted links to evidence saying this did not happen & still someone will come on here & say that because someone once said it was true, that's what they'll believe. Because that's what they want to believe.

 

I can tell you that it did in fact happen as the person involved was my daughter. She worked there and came home very distressed one day and told me exactly what had happened. She was on a placement doing her NVQ or whatever in Nursery teaching. It can be substantiated, the nursery itself could be named and also the names of the people involved. I can probably provide the dates as well as its all in with her NVQ stuff.

 

Now, any apologies going?

[mikem8634 10]

No offence taken, I'm not that sensitive, but yes, you have my position spot on.

Please explain why expressing sincerely and deeply held opinions or views, irrespective of how obnoxious or offensive they are, should have anything to do with government or the law.

 

I'm not sure I know where to begin with a point of view as crass as this and I'm beginning to suspect a troll.

 

Have you not heard of the Civil Rights movement in the US or the Holocaust? How about apartheid South Africa? Rwandan Genocide? Hate crimes do not spring into action out of silence they start by people espousing ignorant and discriminatory views. It is simply immoral to allow a powerful majority to discriminate against a minority because their voices are louder. Is bullying also okay in your world view - including the children who are verbally abused into committing suicide?

[mikem8634 10]

I can tell you that it did in fact happen as the person involved was my daughter. She worked there and came home very distressed one day and told me exactly what had happened. She was on a placement doing her NVQ or whatever in Nursery teaching. It can be substantiated, the nursery itself could be named and also the names of the people involved. I can probably provide the dates as well as its all in with her NVQ stuff.

 

Now, any apologies going?

 

Hang on, you still haven't actually provided any evidence. I could claim to have a file full of transcripts of my conversations with aliens - I wouldn't expect you to believe it.

 

However, if there is solid evidence I would be the first to accept it and that, should go without saying for anyone and everyone.

[mikem8634 10]

Strange the way it all goes quiet when logic and reason leave some posters with nowhere to go.

[six45ive 10]

I really hope I've got this wrong but that sounds like you think it should be okay to use racist, homophobic, sexist and any other discriminatory forms of expression so long as nobody is physically hurt. Please don't take offence at this if I am wrong.

 

Secondly, I think the issue of freedom of expression is far from simple.

 

Please explain why expressing sincerely and deeply held opinions or views, irrespective of how obnoxious or offensive they are, should have anything to do with government or the law.

 

I'm not sure I know where to begin with a point of view as crass as this and I'm beginning to suspect a troll.

 

Have you not heard of the Civil Rights movement in the US or the Holocaust? How about apartheid South Africa? Rwandan Genocide? Hate crimes do not spring into action out of silence they start by people espousing ignorant and discriminatory views. It is simply immoral to allow a powerful majority to discriminate against a minority because their voices are louder. Is bullying also okay in your world view - including the children who are verbally abused into committing suicide?

 

Hopefully I'm not as crass as Pininsho but I do agree with him somewhat on this matter.

You're conflating a number of different issues here. By all means if somebody is spouting offensive views then win the argument with reason and evidence but what you don't do is have them silenced. Their views are only going to fester and get even more radical if they haven't got the option of expressing them in a more open society, not a more closed totalitarian one.

As for bullying......how would you define bullying?

[fake 10]

Hang on, you still haven't actually provided any evidence. I could claim to have a file full of transcripts of my conversations with aliens - I wouldn't expect you to believe it.

 

However, if there is solid evidence I would be the first to accept it and that, should go without saying for anyone and everyone.

 

Oh god.. There is solid evidence but I am not going to share that on this forum as it would be wrong to do so. I'm just pointing out that sometimes these situations do happen and are by no means a myth. I know it happened, she knows it happened so I don't care what others think as I have nothing to prove.

[pininsho 10]

I'm not sure I know where to begin with a point of view as crass as this and I'm beginning to suspect a troll.

 

Have you not heard of the Civil Rights movement in the US or the Holocaust? How about apartheid South Africa? Rwandan Genocide? Hate crimes do not spring into action out of silence they start by people espousing ignorant and discriminatory views. It is simply immoral to allow a powerful majority to discriminate against a minority because their voices are louder. Is bullying also okay in your world view - including the children who are verbally abused into committing suicide?

 

It's amazing how the word troll is always rolled out when somebody says something you don't like.

What's all this civil rights garbage got to do with peoples ideas on how they view other people. That's for them and them alone and nobody elses business. People need to stop sticking their noses in where it's not wanted.

So called thought crime is one of the most disgusting things invented by man.

[mikem8634 10]

Hopefully I'm not as crass as Pininsho but I do agree with him somewhat on this matter.

You're conflating a number of different issues here. By all means if somebody is spouting offensive views then win the argument with reason and evidence but what you don't do is have them silenced. Their views are only going to fester and get even more radical if they haven't got the option of expressing them in a more open society, not a more closed totalitarian one.

As for bullying......how would you define bullying?

 

I agree that open debate is important and that discriminatory values should be challenged when possible but that is assuming that such odious principles are only expressed in forums where education and debate is possible. Are you really suggesting that if, for example, the KKK were burning a cross on the front lawn of a black family's house that they should be debated into submission. No, clearly the terrorised family should have remedy within the law to protect them from abuse such as this even if it is not physical. (I have used a US example deliberately so as to avoid the discussion becoming party political).

 

Furthermore, how does your position cope with incitement to commit acts of terrorism or violence of any kind. Does the law deal with the bomber but not the ideologist who has prepared him?

 

Bullying - using superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something

Edited October 19, 2012 by mikem8634