French to close embassys over muhammad cartoon

[Marx 10]

I also saw Number Six's thread as distinct from the thread it has been merged with.

[llamatron 10]

But the thing is tho, they are putting peoples lives at risk, they don't have to deal with the consequences of protests , im not saying the reaction to these articles is acceptable. But it is certainly inevitable.

 

But this doesn't seem to concern the people that publish this rubbish

 

But that is on their shoulders not a cartoonists. They need to learn to respect other peoples point of view. People died for the vote and to end slavery. You can't just give up because you have to fight for something.

 

In some respects it may be rubbish but thats not the point. If they are willing to kill innocent people because someone publishes a cartoon we need to fight against them. We are fighting for our right to publish something they don't like.

[f0rd 10]

But that is on their shoulders not a cartoonists. They need to learn to respect other peoples point of view. People died for the vote and to end slavery. You can't just give up because you have to fight for something.[/Quote]

 

What point of view? The only reason they have been published is to provoke a further vitriolic reaction from the islamic world. It's immature and irresponsible to think otherwise. Do you think the Copts, Christians and Jews in the countries where the protests are have signed up for the crusade for freedom of expression? When it's their lives that are going to be directly affected by the actions of a publisher sat in a cosy office in Paris.

 

In some respects it may be rubbish but thats not the point. If they are willing to kill innocent people because someone publishes a cartoon we need to fight against them. We are fighting for our right to publish something they don't like.

 

We? How are you fighting against them, you are not in facing the enemy. It's funny how people defend free speech, and that it's worth dying for, but never put themselves on the front line.

 

I don't see people jumping to defend the rights of Anti-semites publishing Holocaust denial material in Canada, if you do, you'd be arrested and charged with a hate crime.

 

This whole cartoon business is like poking a violent animal with a long pointy stick, then sitting back with satisfaction when it reacts.

 

If you want Muslims to respect your right to publish things, then it's by dialogue, education and respect not by insulting them and constant prodding. They aren't going to change over night and insulting them and their prophet isn't going to help either.

Edited September 20, 2012 by f0rd

[llamatron 10]

What point of view? The only reason they have been published is to provoke a further vitriolic reaction from the islamic world. It's immature and irresponsible to think otherwise. Do you think the Copts, Christians and Jews in the countries where the protests are have signed up for the crusade for freedom of expression? When it's their lives that are going to be directly affected by the actions of a publisher sat in a cosy office in Paris.

 

 

 

We? How are you fighting against them, you are not in facing the enemy. It's funny how people defend free speech, and that it's worth dying for, but never put themselves on the front line.

 

I don't see people jumping to defend the rights of Anti-semites publishing Holocaust denial material in Canada, if you do, you'd be arrested and charged with a hate crime.

 

This whole cartoon business is like poking a violent animal with a long pointy stick, then sitting back with satisfaction when it reacts.

 

If you want Muslims to respect your right to publish things, then it's by dialogue, education and respect not by insulting them and constant prodding. They aren't going to change over night and insulting them and their prophet isn't going to help either.

 

Is that the only reason or was it a comment on the rioting? The reality is it is a picture.

 

I wouldn't live in any islamist dominated country because I refuse to live by their strange rules. We live in a country where we do not have to abide by their rules and thats the point. Why do they expect us to?

 

We used to be dominated in a similar way by the church here. Luckily people did fight and die to free us all from repression.

 

Also I am pretty sure the only way to get free speech is to refuse censorship otherwise aren't you just censored by consent:huh:

Edited September 20, 2012 by llamatron

[SevenRivers 10]

What point of view? The only reason they have been published is to provoke a further vitriolic reaction from the islamic world. It's immature and irresponsible to think otherwise. Do you think the Copts, Christians and Jews in the countries where the protests are have signed up for the crusade for freedom of expression? When it's their lives that are going to be directly affected by the actions of a publisher sat in a cosy office in Paris.

 

 

 

We? How are you fighting against them, you are not in facing the enemy. It's funny how people defend free speech, and that it's worth dying for, but never put themselves on the front line.

 

I don't see people jumping to defend the rights of Anti-semites publishing Holocaust denial material in Canada, if you do, you'd be arrested and charged with a hate crime.

 

This whole cartoon business is like poking a violent animal with a long pointy stick, then sitting back with satisfaction when it reacts.

 

If you want Muslims to respect your right to publish things, then it's by dialogue, education and respect not by insulting them and constant prodding. They aren't going to change over night and insulting them and their prophet isn't going to help either.

 

Luckily people have the right to publish things. Respect from a particular religious group is not a prerequisite.

 

It may be cartoons now, but they tend to go into a rage at any perceived criticism. Take the Satanic Verses which was a novel, or a recent historical documentary on Channel 4.

[llamatron 10]

What point of view? The only reason they have been published is to provoke a further vitriolic reaction from the islamic world. It's immature and irresponsible to think otherwise. Do you think the Copts, Christians and Jews in the countries where the protests are have signed up for the crusade for freedom of expression? When it's their lives that are going to be directly affected by the actions of a publisher sat in a cosy office in Paris.

 

 

 

We? How are you fighting against them, you are not in facing the enemy. It's funny how people defend free speech, and that it's worth dying for, but never put themselves on the front line.

 

I don't see people jumping to defend the rights of Anti-semites publishing Holocaust denial material in Canada, if you do, you'd be arrested and charged with a hate crime.

 

This whole cartoon business is like poking a violent animal with a long pointy stick, then sitting back with satisfaction when it reacts.

 

If you want Muslims to respect your right to publish things, then it's by dialogue, education and respect not by insulting them and constant prodding. They aren't going to change over night and insulting them and their prophet isn't going to help either.

 

I don't agree with that being a crime actually-I am disgusted by it though.

[f0rd 10]

Is that the only reason or was it a comment on the rioting? The reality is it is a picture.[/Quote]

 

Well lets see, given the fact that we have seen the backlash from a similar piece of 'free speech' no more than a week ago, then is no other explanation.

 

The cartoonist and editor knew that they are publishing these cartoons to do two things at most - cause more newsorthy stories and garner more sales. Like I said, immature and irresponsible. This isn't about free speech.

 

I wouldn't live in any islamist dominated country because I refuse to live by their strange rules.

Thats the whole point you don't. Other people do. And they can accept and abide by the fact it's a clash of two vastly different cultures.

 

One believes that the 'freedom of expression' is a fundamental right and another believes that the mockery of their religious figurehead is unacceptable under any circumstances punishable in severest manner.

 

We live in a country where we do not have to abide by their rules and thats the point. Why do they expect us to?

 

We used to be dominated in a similar way by the church here. Luckily people did fight and die to free us all from repression.

And why do they have to accept our right to free speech? All thats happening is the cartoons are provoking a belligerent set of individuals - claiming it as 'free speech'. It's ridiculously unnecessary and worst of all dangerous.

Edited September 20, 2012 by f0rd

[llamatron 10]

Well lets see, given the fact that we have seen the backlash from a similar piece of 'free speech' no more than a week ago, then is no other explanation.

 

The cartoonist and editor knew that they are publishing these cartoons to do two things at most - cause more newsorthy stories and garner more sales. Like I said, immature and irresponsible. This isn't about free speech.

 

 

Thats the whole point you don't. Other people do. And they can accept and abide by the fact it's a clash of two vastly different cultures.

 

One believes that the 'freedom of expression' is a fundamental right and another believes that the mockery of their religious figurehead is unacceptable under any circumstances punishable in severest manner.

 

 

And why do they have to accept our right to free speech? All thats happening is the cartoons are provoking a belligerent set of individuals. Claiming it as 'free speech', it's ridiculously unnecessary and worst of all dangerous.

 

I disagree with all of the above. You seem to suggest the french should follow the rules of a group in another country above their own.

 

They have to accept our right to free speech because we have a right to it.

 

I also think that the people doing the rioting are the ones that should try and convince others by talking, not the other way around.

Edited September 20, 2012 by llamatron

[f0rd 10]

I disagree with all of the above. You seem to suggest the french should follow the rules of a group in another country above their own.

 

They have to accept our right to free speech because we have a right to it.

 

This pretty much sums up this whole fiasco.

 

Heres the interesting thing, if a French magazine was to publish anti Jewish cartoons that ridiculed rabbi's and Moses then it would be classed as anti Semitic and the publisher forced to retract the images as well as face legal repercussions.

[llamatron 10]

This pretty much sums up this whole fiasco.

 

Heres the interesting thing, if a French magazine was to publish anti Jewish cartoons that ridiculed rabbi's and Moses then it would be classed as anti Semitic and the publisher forced to retract the images as well as face legal repercussions.

 

well it shouldn't be against the law, but then two wrongs don't make a right.

[SevenRivers 10]

This pretty much sums up this whole fiasco.

 

Heres the interesting thing, if a French magazine was to publish anti Jewish cartoons that ridiculed rabbi's and Moses then it would be classed as anti Semitic and the publisher forced to retract the images as well as face legal repercussions.

 

The Charlie Hebdo publication already did do that, it pokes fun at all religions. Afaik they were not forced to retract, did not face any legal proceediings and ther was no widespread violence in Israel, the only Jewish state.

 

So in summary, you're wrong on all counts.

[f0rd 10]

The Charlie Hebdo publication already did do that, it pokes fun at all religions. Afaik they were not forced to retract, did not face any legal proceediings and ther was no widespread violence in Israel, the only Jewish state.

 

So in summary, you're wrong on all counts.

 

Israel is a secular state. And they poke fun at the clerical side Orthodoxy.