56.7% of birth in London to foreign mums

[TeaFan 10]

True but I'm arguing about proportionality. What proportion of British men today think it's OK to slap their wife or girlfriend around? I'd say a minority. What proportion of other more 'traditional' cultures? I'd say the majority. The Somalian in question wasn't an isolated one off, he said the police had no right to enter his (the taxpayers) house and the government had no right to tell people of different cultures what to do.

 

I believe in aggressive liberalism, e.g. we're all nice and liberal here in the UK and we'll use the power of the state to make sure you recognise this. If you don't before you know it we've got mutilation and murder recognised as female circumcision and honour killings. They aren't, they don't exist in the UK.

 

I'd generally agree with this, my partner works with a lot of women from Asian families in Rotherham and the attitude towards women is pretty dire. Although the amount of women fleeing domestic violence from white men our service deals with is pretty horrendous as well. I'm not sure how much it has to do with the percentage of people born to foreign mothers though - there are certain cultures that clash particularly with our own and others that don't, plus there are plenty of aspects of British culture that are not too great either.

[natjack 10]

You know someone is keeping track of it! Maybe I'm a nervous Nellie, but just ignoring this sort of thing makes me anxious.

I had *sarcasm mode - On*

[boyfriday 21]

You're not concerned about who is in your country? Who is using the NHS and why?

 

Just because they're foreign born mother's doesn't mean they're not entitled to use the NHS Sierra, that's the grievous slant the DM are trying to place on the statistics-'foreigners are getting something for nothing' or something they're not entitled to. The relevance of the connection is about tenuous as running an article entitled "It rained today, boat prices soar!"

 

My previous GP is a foreign born mother (lived here at least 25 years to my knowledge), married to a British born Pakistani doctor, together they probably pay tax at the highest marginal rate (50%), and she would fall into the foreign mum statistic, I'd be more concerned by British ex-pats who pay little or nothing into the system but return to the UK for treatment on the NHS.

Edited August 31, 2012 by boyfriday

[Sierra 22]

Oops, I wrongly assumed you were a Brit, I have to ask what drew you to the forum then?

 

I really have no connection whatsoever to this place. Though I've always been something of an Anglophile. There are a lot of British people in California. I dunno. I found this forum one day, started talking to people, liked it and stayed. I still find all of you fascinating, and this forum very nice. I've met some lovely people as well.

 

I personally have no experience of the NHS. It seems nifty to me, FREE!!! but many people on this forum have complained of foreigners taking advantage of your hospitality. I guess it's not supposed to happen but somehow does anyway?

 

Actually thinking about it I guess my point still stands..unless you're descended from native Americans. Please spare my embarrassment if you are!

 

There is some native american on my father's side. His mother was actually born on the Crow indian reservation in Montana, though she says her father was a non indian or half, she doesn't remember. He abandoned them when she was small and she never saw or heard from him again.

 

The rest is Irish, Mexican, French, Dutch? Spanish, German? and I found out recently there is some Swiss as well. I don't think I forgot anything.

[JackLakeland 10]

There's no balance in these debates anymore..These are the facts.

 

1. Not all immigrants are here to sponge of the state.

2. Some are though.

 

Unless we have details of all the alleged births in London ie how many were dependent on state hand outs then its hard to say if its a good or bad thing.

 

My overall impression (without having all the facts) is its a bad thing, if its true.

 

If my impression is wrong and the vast majority are hard working good citizens, doing much needed jobs, then its a good thing.

[Mecky 10]

ooooooppps

[Sierra 22]

Just because they're foreign born mother's doesn't mean they're not entitled to use the NHS Sierra, that's the grievous slant the DM are trying to place on the statistics-'foreigners are getting something for nothing' or something they're not entitled to. The relevance of the connection is about tenuous as running an article entitled "It rained today, boat prices soar!"

 

My previous GP is a foreign born mother (lived here at least 25 years to my knowledge), married to a British born Pakistani doctor, together they probably pay tax at the highest marginal rate (50%), and she would fall into the foreign mum statistic, I'd be more concerned by British ex-pats who pay little or nothing into the system but return to the UK for treatment on the NHS.

 

Are there that many ex-pats who return just to use the NHS? Are they allowed to do that indefinitely? Or are their benefits cut off or reduced after a certain point.

 

Then they should just break it down by income and immigration status to make it crystal clear. In the US, they just flat out say who is using health services, are they legal or not and do they pay or not.

[boyfriday 21]

I really have no connection whatsoever to this place. Though I've always been something of an Anglophile. There are a lot of British people in California. I dunno. I found this forum one day, started talking to people, liked it and stayed. I still find all of you fascinating, and this forum very nice. I've met some lovely people as well.

Very glad you did, if you've never visited Sheffield you'd find it a unique place, unlike anywhere else in the world, we are a distinct breed apart from the rest of the UK and the only foreigners we don't like are people born in Leeds, everyone else is judged on their character

I personally have no experience of the NHS. It seems nifty to me, FREE!!! but many people on this forum have complained of foreigners taking advantage of your hospitality. I guess it's not supposed to happen but somehow does anyway?

Yes it does happen, but theoretically foreigners are not permitted to use the NHS for free, the numbers that do probably upset some but in the grand scheme of NHS things there's bound to be some wastage and fallout...but generally speaking the NHS was never set up to provide free healthcare to foreigners unless they were citizens of this country.

 

Incidentally we find the hoo-hah over Obama's healthcare reforms totally mystifying, I wholeheartedly support the NHS even though I have private medical insurance but rarely use it, in fact I had to have some physio recently and received the NHS appointment before I received the private one, and the NHS organised it so I could see the therapist at the surgery of a local doctor-amazing service, it's one of the greatest things about this country, care based on need rather than the wallet size, if you saw the Olympic opening ceremony you'll have seen how proud we are of it.

 

 

There is some native american on my father's side. His mother was actually born on the Crow indian reservation in Montana, though she says her father was a non indian or half, she doesn't remember. He abandoned them when she was small and she never saw or heard from him again.

Probably not a connection to be celebrated then

The rest is Irish, Mexican, French, Dutch? Spanish, German? and I found out recently there is some Swiss as well. I don't think I forgot anything.

Fantastic Sierra, a true multiculturist! So you probably wouldn't take kindly to the Crow Indians regarding you poorly because of your foreign ancestry?

[Sierra 22]

I had *sarcasm mode - On*

 

Ok, that's funny. I guess.

[boyfriday 21]

Are there that many ex-pats who return just to use the NHS? Are they allowed to do that indefinitely? Or are their benefits cut off or reduced after a certain point.

I personally know of several and some within my own family, although I believe the government are looking to address this.

Then they should just break it down by income and immigration status to make it crystal clear. In the US, they just flat out say who is using health services, are they legal or not and do they pay or not.

I think the problem is that the DM have taken a 'dry' piece of statistical research by the Office of National Statistics and placed their own spin on it.

 

The ONS aren't in the business of reasons why or policy reform, they just provide the data for the government to do it.

[Dragonfall 10]

That doesn't really address the poster's questions. Can you quantify the 'massive cultural change' and how you believe it might affect you?

 

Anyone older, who's lived here for some length of time, will tell you that things have changed in the UK, culturally, over the last 30yrs. With many different types of influences, but certainly including as a result of mass immigration.

 

The other factor is one of sheer numbers (nothing to do with colour/race etc) - with immigration & our own native increasing numbers, the UK population is heading for 70,000,000. The UK is a small island, & will struggle to maintain a comfortable lifestyle for all - every public service will be stretched to it's absolute limits.

[boyfriday 21]

Anyone older, who's lived here for some length of time, will tell you that things have changed in the UK, culturally, over the last 30yrs. With many different types of influences, but certainly including as a result of mass immigration.

Thanks for the patronising tone, for what it's worth I am "older", was born here and have lived here for considerably longer than 30 years and have witnessed the changes myself, but I don't necessarily associate them with negatives.

 

Anyone with a grasp of history will tell you that things in the UK have been under a perpetual state of change, from the Romans, Huguenots, Jews, and more recently Caribbean, Ugandan Asian and East European newcomers. They all brought/bring something to the party and all took something away, that's the nature of change, but to take a snapshot of Britain as you want it to be and believe that things were ever thus isn't actually a very British thing to do.

The other factor is one of sheer numbers (nothing to do with colour/race etc) - with immigration & our own native increasing numbers, the UK population is heading for 70,000,000. The UK is a small island, & will struggle to maintain a comfortable lifestyle for all - every public service will be stretched to it's absolute limits.

But this discussion is about children born to foreign mothers, not immigration. The statistics make no comment on absolute numbers, why they're here or indeed how long they've been here.