Roadworks on A61 Penistone Road - potential delays

[Planner1 427]

Why won't they ?

Because some do not feel that the Forum is representative of general public opinion and is dominated by Council knockers. They also see the abuse which is sometimes directed at me and don't see the value in getting into such debates.

[retep 68]

Why won't they ?

 

Most planners are on permanent elbow finding training, here's one looking for his,

[truman 10]

Because some do not feel that the Forum is representative of general public opinion and is dominated by Council knockers. They also see the abuse which is sometimes directed at me and don't see the value in getting into such debates.

 

You would have thought that this would be a good vehicle for them to use to get their points across.If the policies made sense then they'd be able to put their arguments forward..maybe they don't like seeing other peole's opinion once they are removed from their offices and see the real world...too much cloistering is a bad thing..

[jamie0114 10]

You didn't read what I said, did you?

 

There is plenty of thought and common sense put into planning roadworks. A lot more effort is put into it than you appear to understand.

 

Every bit of roadworks cannot be done in the summer months, there has to be a reasonable spread over the year. They already lose a couple of months, as significant roadworks are not allowed at Christmas.

 

Had to laugh reading this. I live on the south side of Sheffield where we've had the Woodseats Road fiasco for however many years. Hutcliffe Wood Road is currently being resurfaced and for 2 weeks prior to starting we had lots of nice signs telling us work would take place between 9am and 5pm. Come day 1 of the works and it's suddenly a permanent closure and all the signs are changed.

 

Thought and common sense were obviously on holiday for these 2 schemes.

[BarryRiley 10]

Because some do not feel that the Forum is representative of general public opinion and is dominated by Council knockers. They also see the abuse which is sometimes directed at me and don't see the value in getting into such debates.

 

The forum is as representative of every day Sheffield people as you can get. There is no pre-requisite for beliefs or opinions on here. It seems that every day Sheffield people are not very happy with their council. It is a very easy get-out-clause to say that you're not going to discuss things with people because they don't represent the majority's opinion. Politicians love using it

[jez449 10]

Many of the posts I make explain the Council's position, because (surprisingly enough) no officers from the Council will post on here in their official capacity and, because of my current position, I am aware of the information and can ask the questions of the right people.

 

Many people on here moan from a position of very little understanding. What do you want, a forum where everyone agrees that things are less than optimal, but don't know why, or one where there is input from someone who has genuine knowledge of the issues?

 

So council officers do not want to engage with members of the public. No wonder the public treat them with with contempt.

 

People post on here understand very well that council planning officials believe themselves to be perfect.

 

Whilst accepting that keeping the city on the move will never be an easy task, the failure to accept any blame for mistakes and errors made grates with the public.

 

Recent examples include incorrect signage at Hillsborough Tram Gate, Wicker Bus Gate, the Woodseats 'improvements' and wasn't one of the city's bus lanes found to have been operated illegally?

 

People have genuine knowledge of the issues as we have to live with the planners decisions on a daily basis.

 

Want to get from A to B? Easy - you just go via C, D and E because there is a tram/bus gate in the way.

[Planner1 427]

So council officers do not want to engage with members of the public. No wonder the public treat them with with contempt.

 

People post on here understand very well that council planning officials believe themselves to be perfect.

 

Whilst accepting that keeping the city on the move will never be an easy task, the failure to accept any blame for mistakes and errors made grates with the public.

 

Recent examples include incorrect signage at Hillsborough Tram Gate, Wicker Bus Gate, the Woodseats 'improvements' and wasn't one of the city's bus lanes found to have been operated illegally?

 

People have genuine knowledge of the issues as we have to live with the planners decisions on a daily basis.

 

Want to get from A to B? Easy - you just go via C, D and E because there is a tram/bus gate in the way.

 

And this is the very point I was making. People like you criticise officers from a position of what knowledge? Something you read in the Star?

 

Signs at Hillsborough were fully legal and authorised in writing by the Department for Transport. A fact which the adjudicator acknowledged, but he though that it would be "fair" to include an extra roadmarking, which the traffic signs regulations did not require. Dealing with the result of that adjudication meant changes to the signing, because certain classes of vehicles could no longer be exempted because of the restrictions on the number of words / letters you can paint on the road and not all classes of vehicles previously exempt could be included in the marking.

 

Wicker was also correct during some roadworks, but because a person claimed that on one day it was not and despite the fact that the Council had photos the day before and day after showing the signing unchanged, the adjudicator found against them.

 

Bus lane enforcement is a legal minefield and adjudication on appeals can be inconsistent and sometimes steps outside what is strictly legal into the bounds of "fairness". Officers cannot account for that when planning a scheme, they put in what is legal. They also discuss current best practice with colleagues across the country and at the Department for Transport. Everything possible is done to avoid legal issues, but, because of the the way regulations are couched and the legal system which has been put in place to enforce them, issues can and do occur. Most authorities who have introduced bus lane enforcement have had some issues.

[jez449 10]

And this is the very point I was making. People like you criticise officers from a position of what knowledge? Something you read in the Star?

 

Signs at Hillsborough were fully legal and authorised in writing by the Department for Transport. A fact which the adjudicator acknowledged, but he though that it would be "fair" to include an extra roadmarking, which the traffic signs regulations did not require. Dealing with the result of that adjudication meant changes to the signing, because certain classes of vehicles could no longer be exempted because of the restrictions on the number of words / letters you can paint on the road and not all classes of vehicles previously exempt could be included in the marking.

 

Wicker was also correct during some roadworks, but because a person claimed that on one day it was not and despite the fact that the Council had photos the day before and day after showing the signing unchanged, the adjudicator found against them.

 

Bus lane enforcement is a legal minefield and adjudication on appeals can be inconsistent and sometimes steps outside what is strictly legal into the bounds of "fairness". Officers cannot account for that when planning a scheme, they put in what is legal. They also discuss current best practice with colleagues across the country and at the Department for Transport. Everything possible is done to avoid legal issues, but, because of the the way regulations are couched and the legal system which has been put in place to enforce them, issues can and do occur. Most authorities who have introduced bus lane enforcement have had some issues.

 

Calm down Planner 1. You don't work for the council now so won't be able to take months of paid sick leave.

 

I criticise from a position of a member of the public affected daily by decisions made by people who you say avoid dialogue with the public and who are unwilling to accept any blame or criticism.

 

Whilst my knowledge may not consist of formal planning qualifications are you saying this excludes me from making comments? The people who make these decisions on behalf of the public are accountable to the public, are they not?

 

Decisions made by those in a 'position of knowledge', to use your term, have been found against by independent adjudicators. On several occasions. Perhaps we should let Star readers make decisions in future? Thay could hardly do a worse job, could they?

[Planner1 427]

Calm down Planner 1. You don't work for the council now so won't be able to take months of paid sick leave.

 

I criticise from a position of a member of the public affected daily by decisions made by people who you say avoid dialogue with the public and who are unwilling to accept any blame or criticism.

 

Whilst my knowledge may not consist of formal planning qualifications are you saying this excludes me from making comments? The people who make these decisions on behalf of the public are accountable to the public, are they not?

 

Decisions made by those in a 'position of knowledge', to use your term, have been found against by independent adjudicators. On several occasions. Perhaps we should let Star readers make decisions in future? Thay could hardly do a worse job, could they?

Don't patronise me with that rubbish.

 

As it happens, I have not had a single day off sick for over 20 years.

 

My point is that much of the blame /criticism is completely unjustified and from people who have very little or no knowledge of the subject in hand. The Council's officers do a very difficult and often thankless job and I can well understand that they have better things to do than try to justify their position to people like you who just want to snipe at them.

 

Personally I am all for having a wide and constructive debate and spreading as much information as possible, which is why I post on here.

[gluedtopc 10]

I dont always agree with Planner1, but I must say he's got some b**ls ploughing such a lone furrow on here!!

[jez449 10]

Don't patronise me with that rubbish.As it happens, I have not had a single day off sick for over 20 years.

 

My point is that much of the blame /criticism is completely unjustified and from people who have very little or no knowledge of the subject in hand. The Council's officers do a very difficult and often thankless job and I can well understand that they have better things to do than try to justify their position to people like you who just want to snipe at them.

 

Personally I am all for having a wide and constructive debate and spreading as much information as possible, which is why I post on here.

 

Patronise you with what rubbish?

 

The truth hurts sometimes.

 

Fact -Several decisions by the councils planners have been overruled by independent adjudicators. You say this in your post. These decisions were made by people with supposed knowledge of the subject in hand. They made mistakes. They were wrong. Do they admit this? Not to my knowledge.

 

As for being patronising, can I quote two of your comments to me in your above posts:

 

- People like you criticise officers from a position of what knowledge?

 

- people like you who just want to snipe at them

 

Could I ask who 'people like me' are in your eyes?

 

PS - Good to know your in good health.

Edited February 10, 2012 by jez449

[pippadoll 10]

Nothing like some gross exaggeration to liven the day up, is there?

 

Has anyone actually been delayed by any of these works, or are you just making wild speculation?

 

I use the A61 every day at peak times and I haven't seen any delays at all.

 

Even if they are digging up a couple of the routes into city from the North, there are alternatives and people usually find them very quickly if they experience any delays.

 

 

 

Last two nights I have been delayed for 15-20 minutes coming into Sheffield at 7pm and 4pm. No fun after a long day at work. The planners have certainly got this junction wrong, it just is not working for inbound traffic. If Planner and the others who seem to understand the situation could try to solve this, it would be much appreciated.

 

Oh and as for bad, bad planning decisions. Moving peak time traffic from Hillsborough up towards Walkley, and then adding the 52 bus route is complete INSANITY. The traffic flows here are horrendous. I really do pity the people living on these roads; the noise and fumes pollution can not be good to public health. Great planning by SCC.

Edited February 29, 2012 by pippadoll