7% Increase In Population. Are We Full?

[boyfriday 21]

We've already establish that, that is incorrect and that we have thousands of graduates, some with degrees in medicine that can't get jobs.

Having a degree doesn't necessarily qualify you to do a job, nor does having one in medicine mean you are able to fill the skills shortages that immigrants are filling, after all newly qualified doctors are unable to perform many tasks without being supervised by senior doctors, many of whom are immigrants.

 

And when they've done it and got a degree they can't get a job.

..well given the NHS has standardised pay scales there is no advantage to employing a foreigner over a native on the basis of the immigrant being cheaper, so there must be other reasons why 'they can't get a job'.

 

I'm less selfish and would rather assist their country in employing them, rather than us exploiting them as cheap labour.

That's fine entirely a matter for you, but have you considered who would be doing these menial jobs if the immigrants weren't?

 

 

They come here because they have no work in their country, they come for a better life, they would much prefer that employment and better life to be in their country,

I'm afraid I'm a champion of the free movement of labour, to areas where it's required. I don't see why our kids should be denied the opportunity to work abroad anymore than anyone else's children. If I lived in a 3rd country and one of my children got a job in the US or UK I'd be delighted for them.

but that’s not in our interest so we exploit their poverty and employ them as cheap labour here and in many cases turn a blind eye to the fact they are still living in poverty here.

That's an inescapable consequence of our own unskilled not wanting to do menial jobs for the prevailing rate of pay, it's fine to wax lyrical about forcing them to do it but frankly I'd rather have someone who's well motivated to work and Im not bothered what nationality they are, in simple terms I want the job doing as effectively as possible at the lowest cost possible.

[boyfriday 21]

Didn't I already answer this; do some reading up on the amount of graduates with degree’s in medicine that are unemplyed and can't get jobs in the NHS.

 

Why don't they look for jobs in other countries? Apparently there must be thousands of vacancies in the countries the foreign doctors are coming from.

[MrSmith 10]

Instead of making personal attacks (and telling someone they would be a slave owner can't be anything else) how about you address the point he raises that one million working immigrants cannot simply be swapped out for one million unemployed indigents.

 

I haven't suggest they should be so your why ask me to address it, the damage Labour did to the country is done and can’t be undone by simply kicking out a million working immigrants.

[Cyclone 10]

Says the man that came on here and posted abusive comments, calling anyone with a different opinion a xenophobe

Xenophobe is a description of a certain kind of behaviour. If you behave in that way then people will believe that's what you are.

It's not an insult any more than agrophobe or arachnophobe.

boyfriday has repeatedly claimed we need immigrant or there will be no one to wipe our arses when we get old. It a lame reason for immigration.

Tell that to the Germans.

They're trying to work out how to stop the country falling apart in 25 years as the age pyramid inverts itself.

The only reason we don't have the same concern is the level of immigration we have.

He and others including yourself have repeatedly abused other members just because there opinion is contrary to yours.

 

Not at all, you're simply trying to characterise an accurate description of your opinion as abuse so as to make it more difficult to summarise your attitude.

[MrSmith 10]

Having a degree doesn't necessarily qualify you to do a job, nor does having one in medicine mean you are able to fill the skills shortages that immigrants are filling, after all newly qualified doctors are unable to perform many tasks without being supervised by senior doctors, many of whom are immigrants.

 

 

Nothing like stating the obvious, it’s when they finish their degree the system fall down and favours the exploitation of foreign doctors.

[boyfriday 21]

This is your argument to stop people descussing imigration and the exploitation of imigrants, its in your selfish interests that they are exploited, because your require one to wipe your arse when you get old.

Forgive me, but nowhere have I said someone should be 'exploited', immigrants are not being forced to come to work here with a gun against their heads-they come because they want to and the life's better, just as many Brits emigrate to other countries for similar reasons.

 

 

If we hadn't abolished slavery you would most likely have one.

That's a weak argument, I'm not compelling anyone to come here to work if they don't want to. The relationship between slaves and their owners was a slightly different one.

[MrSmith 10]

..well given the NHS has standardised pay scales there is no advantage to employing a foreigner over a native on the basis of the immigrant being cheaper, so there must be other reasons why 'they can't get a job'.

 

 

It’s cheaper to employ an immigrant because they don't require training, we exploit the fact that their country as already paid for their training.

[Cyclone 10]

There's a bit of a dichotomy on this thread.

 

One group of xenophobes who claim that immigrants are here to claim benefits and use the NHS.

The other group who claim that they have caused unemployment and driven up housing costs.

 

Can you clarify please, are the immigrants all here claiming benefits, or are they all here stealing our jobs and probably women, it can't be both.

 

If you think I insulted you by using the word xenophobe here MrSmith perhaps you could say which of the two groups I mentioned you are in?

 

And perhaps you could explain why I'm wrong to use that word when I believe the definition is entirely accurate for some members of both groups.

 

Xenophobia is an irrational, deep-rooted fear of or antipathy towards foreigners.

 

As far as I can tell both groups are attempting to justify an underlying irrational dislike for foreigners. That's why they twist and squirm so much, you point out how one analysis is incorrect and they switch to another reason why immigrants are bad.

[MrSmith 10]

 

That's fine entirely a matter for you, but have you considered who would be doing these menial jobs if the immigrants weren't?

 

 

 

No one or the unemployed, take your pick. I go for stopping benefits if the unemployed refuse to take up work, put personally I wouldn't go into a care home and drag my life on unnecessarily at the expense of the next generation.

[Cyclone 10]

It’s cheaper to employ an immigrant because they don't require training, we exploit the fact that their country as already paid for their training.

 

We don't exploit the individual, they choose to come here, perhaps for the good pay, or the pleasant conversation they can have with people like you.

 

It's an international job market, certainly within Europe, that's part of quite a few treaties that we've signed up to, why shouldn't we take advantage of that in the same way that other people take advantage of the right to free movement?

[grafikhaus74 10]

Because a threat of physical violence is clearly a superior way to debate than personal insults.

 

OK, so I challenge 'Boy', with all the time he appears to have on his hands, to quote just one instance of personal abuse I've aimed at him which comes even close to the bile he posted against me.

 

Didn't think so.

[Cyclone 10]

No one or the unemployed, take your pick. I go for stopping benefits if the unemployed refuse to take up work, put personally I wouldn't go into a care home and drag my life on unnecessarily at the expense of the next generation.

 

No one. So you'd rather that our hospitals were desperately understaffed?

 

And you wonder why I use the word xenophobic 10 pages ago!