£36k+ per year in rent for a market stall, RIP Sheffield market

[mattythefish 10]

Food isn't VAT exempt, some of it is zero rated. So it still counts towards the VAT turnover limit, but the rate is 0. The rules are strange on exactly which food is 0% & which is 20% too, but it all counts towards that maximum turnover limit before you must register for VAT.

 

Maybe some of the smaller stalls don't need to be VAT registered, but if you're renting 3 units & paying that amount each week then you're in serious trouble if you're not turning over more than that unless your stock costs nothing & you have no staff. If you're selling mostly zero rated goods then it's usually in your interests to be VAT registered anyway.

 

AFAIK a landlord doesn't need to charge VAT on rents, so it seems a strange decision, but maybe there are strange accounting reasons for it.

 

all hot food and drinks either takeaway or sit in are subject to 20% vat and i think the threshold for registration is 78k any unit doing under that amount will not be in business long.

[Anna Glypta 10]

Food isn't VAT exempt, some of it is zero rated. So it still counts towards the VAT turnover limit, but the rate is 0. The rules are strange on exactly which food is 0% & which is 20% too, but it all counts towards that maximum turnover limit before you must register for VAT.

 

Maybe some of the smaller stalls don't need to be VAT registered, but if you're renting 3 units & paying that amount each week then you're in serious trouble if you're not turning over more than that unless your stock costs nothing & you have no staff. If you're selling mostly zero rated goods then it's usually in your interests to be VAT registered anyway.

 

AFAIK a landlord doesn't need to charge VAT on rents, so it seems a strange decision, but maybe there are strange accounting reasons for it.

 

I'm pretty familiar with VAT. But there is no reason why many of the traders need to be VAT registered particularly if they are a start up business. Not all are renting 3 stalls. VAT is an inconvenience for a start up trader because of the need to keep records and submit accounts.

 

Anyhow. We have established that there is VAT on the rents. It all adds to the bills facing trader in the market.

 

Rent

VAT

Service charges.

Business rates. The list keeps getting longer.

[999tigger 10]

We were talking about the stall whose owner you quoted. You were telling us food was vat free. We were telling you the rules are more complicated than that.

 

I said the man whose stall you were talking about is almost certainly VAT registered. Go and ask him if you dont believe me. He isnt a start up, but an established business that sells items which are subject to VAT.

[oldprune 10]

all hot food and drinks either takeaway or sit in are subject to 20% vat and i think the threshold for registration is 78k any unit doing under that amount will not be in business long.

 

I dunno. If you stick a tea bag or a spoon of Nescafe in a cup of hot water and sell it for a quid 50 and you shift 50000 of them you would be doing OK, would be turning over £75K and making a profit of £70k until the rents kicked in. You'd survive OK in a cafe in Brightside but not in the market.

[Anna Glypta 10]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-18735215

 

 

 

£3000 a month is £36k per year.

 

(The big four supermarkets pay nowhere near this amount for such a small amount of space and they have space for free parking too!)

 

The cost will be passed onto the consumer, the consumer will shop elsewhere where the burden of rent is less.

 

I for one don't want to be paying vast sums of rent when trying to find a bargain cut of meat and some cheap veg.

 

RIP Sheffield market. Condolences to the people who used to work there.

 

0800 055 66 88 is the number you need to ring to make a new claim for dole.

 

It seems the figures you quote under estimate the bills. They have to pay VAT on top of that rent, plus a service charge, and charges for electicity, heating, water and waste disposal.

[I1L2T3 10]

It seems the figures you quote under estimate the bills. They have to pay VAT on top of that rent, plus a service charge, and charges for electicity, heating, water and waste disposal.

 

Incredible. Can't see how many stalls can be viable

[Scott_PT 10]

Incredible. Can't see how many stalls can be viable

 

I agree, the stress to make money must be unbearable sometimes

[cuttsie 1,091]

The rent and service charge is plus VAT, so for poor old juicy patties he had to include the VAT in what he needed to take per week.

 

Castle market was losing £400,000 per year due to SOME traders having a discount

And the important word is some.

 

£400,000 may be a drop in the Ocean when the cost of building the new Market plus the sixty years loan is taken into consideration , all this before the added cost of the demolition of Castle Market and then lets not forget the Phoenix that we will have to pay for as the Castle arises from the ashes.

[anywebsite 10]

They probably do need to cut the rents to make sure those empty stalls get filled, no point having them sat empty with nobody paying rent, but I think some people are being over dramatic. A good business should be able to pay those rents, the footfall has to justify those rates though & people don't want to visit a half empty market.

 

A reduction in rents until the rest of the moor is complete could be a good start.

[cuttsie 1,091]

They probably do need to cut the rents to make sure those empty stalls get filled, no point having them sat empty with nobody paying rent, but I think some people are being over dramatic. A good business should be able to pay those rents, the footfall has to justify those rates though & people don't want to visit a half empty market.

 

A reduction in rents until the rest of the moor is complete could be a good start.

They have set the rents to cover the loan.

[anywebsite 10]

They have set the rents to cover the loan.

 

Is the loan for less money if there are a load of empty stalls? Some rent is better than nothing, so they should set rents at a level that allow the market to be near full, then the shortfall on the loan should be lower. The market should dictate the price rather than the council trying to fix it too high. Maybe as a start they could extend the 50% off rent deal until the cinema & the rest of the moor redevelopment is built.

Edited April 3, 2014 by anywebsite

[Ghozer 112]

And anyone paying VAT on the rental of Market space can claim that VAT back as a business expense (like you can most)

 

so VAT shouldn't make any difference, if it's a business expense...

 

Also, saying that "A good business should be able to afford the rents" - What about new businesses trying to start up?