RAF Waddington Airshow

[Mecky 10]

I like watching WW2 bombers take off and land. Especially the B17

[JFKvsNixon 11]

I like watching WW2 bombers take off and land. Especially the B17

 

They had one at Waddington a couple of years ago, it was good to see a different WW2 bomber from the Lancaster.

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

Here in America, any airshow that includes federal military aircraft is free on the premise that they belong to the people pay who for them in taxation. Other air shows can be expensive.

 

And here (or rather there, in the United Kingdom - because I'm in Germany at the moment ) any US Airshow (Mildenhall, IAT at Fairford) charges entry.

 

If you had an Airshow at a military installation in the US which included non-Federal aircraft, who would pay the costs of those exhibitors?

 

Are you suggesting that if an airshow was held at a USAF Base that Base would simply open its gates to all comers?

 

If an airshow was held at a civilian airfield and federally-operated aircraft were taking part, would the federal government require the civilian operators to allow everybody free admission? Would the federal government pay the costs and charges of all the non-federal exhibitors?

 

The correct name for Waddington Airshow is 'The Waddington International Airshow' (because a large number of the exhibitors are not UK Mil.) (Some of) those exhibitors charge to appear; it costs money to support all of them. The MoD has limited amounts of money and no shortages of ways of spending it. The RAF is considerably smaller nowadays (established for about 38000 now - due to reduce to about 33000 in 3 years time) than it was in the early 1970s (About 99000.)

 

I understand that government funding for airshows in the UK has been reduced dramatically. If the MoD was to say: "Well, the government has given us X amount of money for training and operations, but we're going to siphon some of it off so we can put on free airshows" I suspect that there might be one or two complaints. If airshows are going to continue (and I hope they do) and if the government is going to continue to decline to fund them then the people who put them on are going to be forced to charge.

 

In the US, 'the people' owned (and paid handsomely for) the space shuttles. If they wanted to go and look at one, or go and watch one take off then (although they could do so at no charge from a few miles away) if they wanted to do so from the Space Center, they paid (and a bit more than 21 quid, too:hihi:.)

 

When Discovery was flown to Washington (on April 17th) it did a 'flyby' at Patrick AFB. There were large numbers of people watching it from Pineda Causeway, Merritt Island and Satellite Beach, but unless they had authorised access, they were not allowed onto PAFB to watch from there.

[buck 11]

And here (or rather there, in the United Kingdom - because I'm in Germany at the moment ) any US Airshow (Mildenhall, IAT at Fairford) charges entry.

 

If you had an Airshow at a military installation in the US which included non-Federal aircraft, who would pay the costs of those exhibitors?

 

Are you suggesting that if an airshow was held at a USAF Base that Base would simply open its gates to all comers?

 

If an airshow was held at a civilian airfield and federally-operated aircraft were taking part, would the federal government require the civilian operators to allow everybody free admission? Would the federal government pay the costs and charges of all the non-federal exhibitors?

 

The correct name for Waddington Airshow is 'The Waddington International Airshow' (because a large number of the exhibitors are not UK Mil.) (Some of) those exhibitors charge to appear; it costs money to support all of them. The MoD has limited amounts of money and no shortages of ways of spending it. The RAF is considerably smaller nowadays (established for about 38000 now - due to reduce to about 33000 in 3 years time) than it was in the early 1970s (About 99000.)

 

I understand that government funding for airshows in the UK has been reduced dramatically. If the MoD was to say: "Well, the government has given us X amount of money for training and operations, but we're going to siphon some of it off so we can put on free airshows" I suspect that there might be one or two complaints. If airshows are going to continue (and I hope they do) and if the government is going to continue to decline to fund them then the people who put them on are going to be forced to charge.

 

In the US, 'the people' owned (and paid handsomely for) the space shuttles. If they wanted to go and look at one, or go and watch one take off then (although they could do so at no charge from a few miles away) if they wanted to do so from the Space Center, they paid (and a bit more than 21 quid, too:hihi:.)

 

When Discovery was flown to Washington (on April 17th) it did a 'flyby' at Patrick AFB. There were large numbers of people watching it from Pineda Causeway, Merritt Island and Satellite Beach, but unless they had authorised access, they were not allowed onto PAFB to watch from there.

Let me try to answer to the best of my knowledge. In the first instance you say youi were charged admission at Mildenhall nd Germany, neither of these places is on American soil, therefore the rights of US citizens are not in place.

You asked about admission to a private show if active military aircraft were taking part. They must be flown by active military personell and currently in service, not warbirds. As to who pays, I'm not sure. Pratt and Whitney in East Harford CT ran an annual show for years from their test airfield. Many of the aircraft were flown by air force or navy pilots, along with aerobatics flown by Patti Wagstaff and others. The organization was terrific and attracted up to a million people. But they cost the public nothing.

 

The USAF puts on a show every year at either AFB Westover or AFB Barnes in Massachusetts. It usually includes Thunderbirds F-16s and sometimes the Navy Blue Angels. It is always free. My nephew Chris was a flight sergeant in the RAF attached to the Red Arrows. They did a tour of the US one year mostly around the DC area. He was surprised to find there was no charge to visitors. When I was in the RN, I was part of Royal Naval Air Squadron 800. We flew a nine man formation aerobatic show at a variety of military fields around Britain flying Sea Hawks culminating with a show for Farnborough week. The RAF outdid us with a 22 man formation flying Hunters. I've got to admit they were damned good, and still are with the Red Arrows. On a visit to RAF Scampton Sergeants mess with my RAF brother in law, I mentioned about the size of the Fairey Gannet, one of the ugliest planes ever to disgrace the skies. This caused a laugh because the Lincoln was still in service at the time. So I said let me know when you're planning to put one down on my flight deck, and I'll stay below decks.

Edited July 2, 2012 by buck

[Rampent 10]

I just walked in for free.

[HeadingNorth 11]

... My nephew Chris was a flight sergeant in the RAF attached to the Red Arrows. They did a tour of the US one year mostly around the DC area. He was surprised to find there was no charge to visitors.

 

Is it widely known amongst Americans that some of their tax dollars are funding a foreign air force's show-off display team?

[Chieffee 10]

140000 visitors! Explains the ridiculous traffic, I couldn't get to the local shop and couldn't hear my car stereo for the damned planes flying overhead.

[Rampent 10]

140000 visitors! Explains the ridiculous traffic, I couldn't get to the local shop and couldn't hear my car stereo for the damned planes flying overhead.

 

Did you spit on a fire?

[cytine 40]

Oh Chieffe, I'm so sorry your trip to the shop was disrupted, the Airshow wasn't a secret was it? It happens every year. Surely you could plan for it. But on the bright side next year, if you let the airbase and pilots know you're listening to your car stereo I am sure they will either divert the aircraft or tone down the engine noise. Can't have you upset or your important life disrupted can we?

Edited July 2, 2012 by cytine

[Rupert_Baehr 10]

Let me try to answer to the best of my knowledge. In the first instance you say youi were charged admission at Mildenhall nd Germany, neither of these places is on American soil, therefore the rights of US citizens are not in place.

 

Not quite, Buck - I said that the Americans charged for admission to the show at Mildenhall and to that at Fairford. Whether the charge was described as a 'charge to attend' or as a 'charge to park' is another question.

 

(In the early 80's, parking at Mildenhall cost £5 for a car and £50 for a coach. pedestrian entry cost nothing - but since you couldn't find a parking spot within about 5 miles, it was easier to pay. - Or go by taxi .... which would probably cost you 2 or 3 times as much.)

 

My point about Americans charging other Americans to see the Space Shuttles (which were, after all, taxpayer-funded aircraft) stands.

 

The Discovery (one of those taxpayer-funded aircraft) is now on display at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, an annex of the Smithsonian Institution's National Air and Space Museum. Admission is free - but you'll have to pay $15 to park.

 

... You asked about admission to a private show if active military aircraft were taking part. They must be flown by active military personell and currently in service, not warbirds. As to who pays, I'm not sure. Pratt and Whitney in East Harford CT ran an annual show for years from their test airfield. Many of the aircraft were flown by air force or navy pilots, along with aerobatics flown by Patti Wagstaff and others. The organization was terrific and attracted up to a million people. But they cost the public nothing.

 

The New England Airshow website clarifies 'who pays what.'

 

Admission is free - but the government doesn't pay the costs of the civilian participants - that's aranged by an organisation called the Galaxy Community Council.

 

"The Galaxy Community Council is an all-volunteer 501©3 charitable corporation that supports the Great New England Air Show. It is responsible for raising funds to support the non-military participants, such as civilian aerobatic acts and vintage ‘war bird” aircraft at the air show.

The Galaxy Community Council is a private organization. It is not part of the Department of Defense or any of its components and has no governmental status."

 

If there was such a body prepared to provide funding for the civilian participants (and capable of extracting contributions from those who wanted to see the show) then no doubt entrance to the Waddington Air Show would also be free. The RAF could hardly go around with a begging bowl trying to raise funds for the (very many) non-UK mil participants, so if there was to be no admission charge, then presumably some sort of volunteer civilian organisation would have to do so.

 

Times (and the willingness of the government to pay) have changed. The 1st airshow I had anything to do with was Finningley in 1972 (as a 'worker-bee'), the last was Upper Heyford in 1991 (as a spectator.) In the intervening years I spent a fair bit of time planning and working at airshows in various capacities in the UK, Canada and half a dozen or so in the US from Loring AFB to Hickham AFB

 

In the early 70's The Royal Air Force was 3 times the size it is now and (it appeared) the government of the time felt that Air Shows provided excellent PR, were a valuable recruiting tool and were eminently worth funding. Times have changed, the RAF is much smaller, money is tight and manpower is in short supply. - I've no idea how many hours of manpower were required to plan, run and clean up after Finningley in 1972 - but there was no shortage and there obviously was sufficient funding.

 

Most of the participants were military - British or other allied - and I don't suppose there was too much haggling about 'who paid for what'. (I've no idea who footed the bill for me to go to an airshow at Hickham - it was probably the British taxpayer - but I can assure you I had a good time and I got good value for the taxpayers' money.)

 

The USAF puts on a show every year at either AFB Westover or AFB Barnes in Massachusetts. It usually includes Thunderbirds F-16s and sometimes the Navy Blue Angels. It is always free...

 

The New England airshow at Westover AFB certainly appears to be pretty good. Westover is a Reserve unit, so perhaps it's easier to throw the place open to the public for a few days.

 

There is one annual airshow in the UK which does not charge an entrance fee. The Lowestoft Airshow (which was held this year on 23/24 June) doesn't charge an admission fee - though I understand you do have to pay £10 to park - and the organisers request a 'donation' of £3 per person from spectators.

 

I've no idea how much (or how little) they managed to collect this year, but a couple of years ago it worked out at less than 50p per spectator and as a result, there was some doubt as to the future financial viability of the show. (Things did improve and they 'netted' £23,000 in 2011 - which went to local charities.)

[Harleyman 12]

I paid 20 dollars to get into the Planes of Fame museum air show in Chino, Calif. last May. Parking was free in a disused strawberry field next to the museum.

There is a hangar where work is underway on restoring war birds and any donations to the museum go towards restoration work. I had no problem paying an entrance fee and also donating another 50 dollars. The people who work on these planes are all unpaid volunteers and we're lucky these people are around to preserve for our and future generations these wonderful old aircraft.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Harleyman

[buck 11]

Is it widely known amongst Americans that some of their tax dollars are funding a foreign air force's show-off display team?

I don't think they care one way or another. Americans like to be entertained by the best there is, no matter where they come from. Chris told me that they were very well received on his visit. Has it come to a point where we English are becoming unwelcoming to people from other nations. It almost looks like it after reading some of the comments about the Olympic Games on this forum. If so I'm glad to be here.