Is touching a woman's bottom "sexual assault"?

[rickiethecat 10]

A while back the Sunderland footballer Titus Bramble was charged with two counts of sexual assault. I didn't pay too much attention at the time and presumed it was like the usual stories about footballers taking impressionable women back to hotel rooms and having sex with them, the grey area presumably being about whether consent was given or not.

 

In the end Bramble was cleared but what surprised me was more that the offences he was alleaged to have committed were so mild and trivial that it's amazing the case ever went to court.

 

According to the BBC the two incidents of alleged assault were that Bramble "was accused of groping a woman's bottom in a nightclub in Yarm, on Teesside, before sexually assaulting another woman in a cab home.

 

Mr Bramble admitted that he was "quite drunk" on the night and shared a consensual kiss with the woman in the back of a cab before her mood changed.

 

Another woman came forward later to report that while in the Cross Keys nightclub she had felt someone grope her bottom."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18282298

 

 

Now obviously forcing a woman to have sex against her will - drunk or otherwise - is a very serious offence but to class a playful tap on the backside as sexual assault is just ridiculous. Every weekend in every town in the country men and women go out to pubs and clubs, get drunk and indulge in harmless flirtatious behaviour. Have we become so paranoid as a country that any form of flirting that the recipient doesn't particularly appreciate is now deemed to be worthy of being taken to court?

[Jag82 10]

A while back the Sunderland footballer Titus Bramble was charged with two counts of sexual assault. I didn't pay too much attention at the time and presumed it was like the usual stories about footballers taking impressionable women back to hotel rooms and having sex with them, the grey area presumably being about whether consent was given or not.

 

In the end Bramble was cleared but what surprised me was more that the offences he was alleaged to have committed were so mild and trivial that it's amazing the case ever went to court.

 

According to the BBC the two incidents of alleged assault were that Bramble "was accused of groping a woman's bottom in a nightclub in Yarm, on Teesside, before sexually assaulting another woman in a cab home.

 

Mr Bramble admitted that he was "quite drunk" on the night and shared a consensual kiss with the woman in the back of a cab before her mood changed.

 

Another woman came forward later to report that while in the Cross Keys nightclub she had felt someone grope her bottom."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18282298

 

 

Now obviously forcing a woman to have sex against her will - drunk or otherwise - is a very serious offence but to class a playful tap on the backside as sexual assault is just ridiculous. Every weekend in every town in the country men and women go out to pubs and clubs, get drunk and indulge in harmless flirtatious behaviour. Have we become so paranoid as a country that any form of flirting that the recipient doesn't particularly appreciate is now deemed to be worthy of being taken to court?

 

You are kidding ?

[Guest sibon]

You are kidding ?

 

He's trying to provoke a reaction. As usual. Some might call it trolling.

 

To answer the question in the title: Yes.

[joffandanmum 11]

If univited or unwanted...YES

[Badlittlepup 10]

I doubt it was just a 'playful tap on the bottom' though. There is a big difference to someone doing that and someone grabbing your bum and groping it with their fingers going everywhere.

 

Anyway, as happened in this case the woman didn't report it as an isolated incident but only came forward when she realised it was one of a series of things he had done that night. It's not as though you have queues of women turning up at the police station baying for blood every time someone brushes past them in a club.

[splodgeyAl 10]

A while back the Sunderland footballer Titus Bramble was charged with two counts of sexual assault. I didn't pay too much attention at the time and presumed it was like the usual stories about footballers taking impressionable women back to hotel rooms and having sex with them, the grey area presumably being about whether consent was given or not.

 

In the end Bramble was cleared but what surprised me was more that the offences he was alleaged to have committed were so mild and trivial that it's amazing the case ever went to court.

 

According to the BBC the two incidents of alleged assault were that Bramble "was accused of groping a woman's bottom in a nightclub in Yarm, on Teesside, before sexually assaulting another woman in a cab home.

 

Mr Bramble admitted that he was "quite drunk" on the night and shared a consensual kiss with the woman in the back of a cab before her mood changed.

 

Another woman came forward later to report that while in the Cross Keys nightclub she had felt someone grope her bottom."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18282298

 

 

Now obviously forcing a woman to have sex against her will - drunk or otherwise - is a very serious offence but to class a playful tap on the backside as sexual assault is just ridiculous. Every weekend in every town in the country men and women go out to pubs and clubs, get drunk and indulge in harmless flirtatious behaviour. Have we become so paranoid as a country that any form of flirting that the recipient doesn't particularly appreciate is now deemed to be worthy of being taken to court?

Or in other words "should people not have the legal right to prevent someone else's unwanted and / or inappropriate behaviour towards them"

[rickiethecat 10]

He's trying to provoke a reation. As usual. Some might call it trolling.

 

To answer the question in the title: Yes.

 

Please don't try and tell me what I'm trying to do. I'm simply trying to start a debate on what constitutes acceptable behavious when drunkenly flirting with the opposite sex in a bar.

[Guest sibon]

Please don't try and tell me what I'm trying to do. I'm simply trying to start a debate on what constitutes acceptable behavious when drunkenly flirting with the opposite sex in a bar.

 

No you aren't. You are being artificially contentious.

 

It is clearly unacceptable behaviour, no need for any debate.

[rickiethecat 10]

Or in other words "should people not have the legal right to prevent someone else's unwanted and / or inappropriate behaviour towards them"

 

So if a man tries to chat up a woman who doesn't fancy him, is that sexual assault?

[HeadingNorth 11]

So if a man tries to chat up a woman who doesn't fancy him, is that sexual assault?

 

No, because it doesn't involve contact.

 

If she says "no" and he persists, it is harassment.

[Jag82 10]

So if a man tries to chat up a woman who doesn't fancy him, is that sexual assault?

 

You know it isn't. You advocate on another thread that imprisonment should be all but abolished, you then query the nature of assault after having discounted a sexual assault incident.

 

 

rickiethecat for the Home Office !

[splodgeyAl 10]

So if a man tries to chat up a woman who doesn't fancy him, is that sexual assault?

I'd agree with what HeadingNorth said