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Looks like circumcision could be banned.

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They have the choice not to circumcise their own baby boys..just sayin.

 

so go on, how many choose not to carry on the tradition?

I don't know. Maybe you should do a new thread with a poll? I'm a woman, and anyway not from a 'tradition' of having babies, male or female, operated on without a justifiable medical reason, so I have no idea what choice a man in those circumstances would make for his male offspring. As a mother, I certainly wouldn't allow it.

 

Are you taking this stance because you were circumcised as a baby yourself and you feel the need to justify what your parents did to you? Or some other reason? Have/would you have your own son cropped? And why?

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I don't know. Maybe you should do a new thread with a poll? I'm a woman, and anyway not from a 'tradition' of having babies, male or female, operated on without a justifiable medical reason, so I have no idea what choice a man in those circumstances would make for his male offspring. As a mother, I certainly wouldn't allow it.

 

Are you taking this stance because you were circumcised as a baby yourself and you feel the need to justify what your parents did to you? Or some other reason? Have/would you have your own son cropped? And why?

 

You're not a better mother for not doing it. You're not a worse mother if you do it... as i say, nobdy grows up to resent their parents decision. You seem to be insinuating that Jewish mothers are evil somehow, and lesser people when that could not be further from the truth. Jewish family life for us is most sacred, and lasting.

 

A decision we made 2 years ago with our boy. I mentioned a few pages back, the only people to be 'scarred' by it are, naturally, the mum (who usually remains upstairs crying), and the person holding the baby.

Edited by Ian Dome

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You're not a better mother for not doing it. You're not a worse mother if you do it... as i say, nobdy grows up to resent their parents decision. You seem to be insinuating that Jewish mothers are evil somehow, and lesser people when that could not be further from the truth. Jewish family life for us is most sacred, and lasting.

 

A decision we made 2 years ago with our boy. I mentioned a few pages back, the only people to be 'scarred' by it are, naturally, the mum (who usually remains upstairs crying), and the person holding the baby.

I'm not insinuating anything, please don't attempt to impute such drama as 'evil' or that another person is a 'lesser' being, to my opinion. What I say is what I say, I try to be clear at all times. If anything 'misguided' would be my assessment of people who make unchangeable choices for themselves or others, in the name of religious beliefs.

 

I have a hazy idea that many religious tenets and instructions for mutilating the sexual organs of both men and women are designed to control behaviour and reduce sexual pleasure. Everything else, hygiene and disease control, are attempts to justify and introduce some rationality into these practises?

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because they're "victims" according to you people. so show me some examples. you can't. so whats the problem? you're campaigning against something nobody who you're claiming to be victims agrees with you on.

 

The fact that as an adult they don't complain about something they can't remember happening doesn't alter anything.

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Because they don't know what they're missing? How can you know you want something you can't even remember having? Obviously men who've grown up with this lack are going to defend their condition, what choice do they have? You really need information from men (and their partners) who had the procedure in adult life on how it affected them, before you can reach a judgment.

Even then I don't think that helps. Nobody is suggesting that it be banned as an elective procedure for adults who can consent, but even if men who choose to have it done as adults think that it's brilliant, that doesn't mean it should be done to babies.

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You're not a better mother for not doing it. You're not a worse mother if you do it... as i say, nobdy grows up to resent their parents decision.

Because they have no memory of it happening and no experience of the alternative.

You seem to be insinuating that Jewish mothers are evil somehow, and lesser people when that could not be further from the truth. Jewish family life for us is most sacred, and lasting.

 

A decision we made 2 years ago with our boy. I mentioned a few pages back, the only people to be 'scarred' by it are, naturally, the mum (who usually remains upstairs crying), and the person holding the baby.

 

If it causes distress to the parents and mutilation to the child, why defend the practice?

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I'm not insinuating anything, please don't attempt to impute such drama as 'evil' or that another person is a 'lesser' being, to my opinion. What I say is what I say, I try to be clear at all times. If anything 'misguided' would be my assessment of people who make unchangeable choices for themselves or others, in the name of religious beliefs.

 

I have a hazy idea that many religious tenets and instructions for mutilating the sexual organs of both men and women are designed to control behaviour and reduce sexual pleasure. Everything else, hygiene and disease control, are attempts to justify and introduce some rationality into these practises?

 

Now whos the drama-imputer? Firstly, a foreskin is not an organ its a teeny piece of skin, and removing does not = mutilation. I think you need to look that word up. Try google images. ;)

 

And yes, hygeine, disease control, in my opinion as a parent, is something that we take 1000% seriously in our children, so it does help that there are benefits on top of the tradition itself. If you have a boy, you should look at doing it, if he's too old now to not forget, he won't thank you for not removing his foreskin, i can promise you! Especially if he (G-d forbid) gets urinary tract infections, has inferior genital hygiene, smegma, sexually transmitted HIV, oncogenic types of human papillomavirus, genital herpes, syphilis and chancroid, penile cancer, and possibly prostate cancer, phimosis, paraphimosis, thrush, and inflammatory skin conditions such as balanitis and balanoposthitis.

 

If its not worth protecting your boy from the above, thats your call. I would do it again and again and again.

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Because they have no memory of it happening and no experience of the alternative.

 

Similar to you then? ;)

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Didn't these people at least deserve the chance of making the choice for themselves?

No, that's not how legal systems work- whether secular or religious.

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If it causes distress to the parents and mutilation to the child, why defend the practice?

Because that's what the law requires.

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Because they have no memory of it happening and no experience of the alternative.

 

If it causes distress to the parents and mutilation to the child, why defend the practice?

 

Drama. Its not mutilation.

 

Are you telling me my willy is mutilated? Many would disagree :hihi:

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Even then I don't think that helps. Nobody is suggesting that it be banned as an elective procedure for adults who can consent, but even if men who choose to have it done as adults think that it's brilliant, that doesn't mean it should be done to babies.
Neither do I, but I was answering a specific point from Ian.

 

Actually, I can see the dilemma. If people whose religion specifies their need for this to happen at a certain time, and they really believe in it, what are they supposed to do? As opposed to it merely being a 'tradition' in their family, which doesn't imply a strong religious feeling about it.

 

If we're reluctant to 'ban the burqa', which is not even a religious requirement, how are we really going to attempt to ban infant circumcision, which actually is in Judaism and Islam?

Edited by rubydazzler
clarifucation for pedants!

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