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More staffy attacks on kids

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I would recommend you watch this horizon which has a very good segment on how dogs can quickley be bread to lose there vicious characteristics and (as someone on here has already pointed out) this is largely (by most responsible breeders) what has occurred with Staffy's. Granted they still have 'the look', and that's what the meatheads go for, but, as qualified by all the Staffy owners on this thread, they are now no more 'fighting' dogs than we are great apes.

 

 

You do realise that Staffys are still used in illegal dog fights?

 

They still have the characteristic physique common to dogs used for fighting i.e. muscular squat body, powerful jaw etc, etc.

 

A new born staffy is probably emotionally no more a fighting dog than any other- but, for anyone wanting to bring it up as a fighter, it's certainly going to have the physical characteristics necessary for success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand you here. All I said was trying to aquire an object (unless it was obviously at hand) was silly if being attacked by a knife, not that they were easy to defend against. In fact you've really just proven my point. Knife attacks are so dangerous (which was my point) that comparing them to a dog attack is a bit silly (which is was what you did). Someone with a knife is far more dangerous than just about any dog attack, which is why I picked you up on comparing them.

 

Obviously an object suitable for a weapon must be very 'close at hand'- I wasn't suggesting forgetting about the knife attacker while you spend a few minutes rummaging through drawers :)

 

i.e. you're attacked on the street- a cars passing, can you barge into the attacker and try and put him/her under the car? That's a weapon.

 

is there a brick laying around- not brilliant against a knife, but better than a fist for redering him/her quickly unconscious.

 

etc, etc. Of course, anyone with genuine self-defence training (as opposed to black belt fantasists) would likely have been aware that something was building up and will have instintively clocked the immediate area for any object that could be used as a weapon.

 

My 'comparison' of a knife attack with a staffy attack was purely pointing out that, like a knife attack, where, regardless of how much training you've had, you are in a very serious situation which, most likely, will end in you being dead or in intensive care, similarly, if attacked by a viscious staffy intent on killing you, you're likely to be badly hurt/maimed/killed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think chavs get them because of their reputation as fighting dogs, I think they get them because they look 'ard (which I think is at least some of the problem with the press). My brother in law actually got a dog that had been used as a 'practice' dog for actual, illegal, dog fighters (who apparently used many breeds). The stories the rescue centre told him about these criminals were far different than the way your average 'chav' brings up the dogs. To 'most' (I'm not by any stretch suggesting all) 'chavs' the dogs are status symbols.

 

I do agree with the bit I've highlighted wholeheartedly, and I think that is the crux of the point with any breed, If you make no attampt to bring it up properly (or mistreat it), it is more likely to turn, just like any dog, just like any person who has been abused. They are intelligent animals that like any intelligent animal wants love and attention.

 

I agree, most chavs get them cos they look hard, and, because they have a reputation for being fighting dogs. Most chavs don't have the knowledge or discipline necessary to train a staffy to fight other dogs.

 

Some do though, and, increasingly, in this world where knives are very common and guns are brought into play for the longer running disputes, staffys and similar dogs are being acquired for attacking and defending against humans.

 

I recall a documentary on this subject where the interviewer was talking to some guy flanked by 2 dogs (don't recall if they were staffys, but they were defintily fighter-looking dogs) and he asked the guy what he would have to do to make them attack him (the interveiwer). The reply was than he'd simply 'look at him' i.e. he'd trained the dogs to lethally attack anyone when prompted by a particular look form the owner.

 

Perhaps most important though, is that for a dog, any dog, but here we're talking about chav owned staffys, no training is necessary to make them viscious, in fact it's often a complete absence of training that results in a dog being viscious.

 

If you do not train a dog, the chances are good that it will end up being a problem dog, and, no disrespect to chavs, but, a portion of them get a dog cos it 'looks hard' and end up not having the knowledge or inclination to put in the work necessary to train it.

Edited by onewheeldave

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You do realise that Staffys are still used in illegal dog fights?

 

They still have the characteristic physique common to dogs used for fighting i.e. muscular squat body, powerful jaw etc, etc.

 

A new born staffy is probably emotionally no more a fighting dog than any other- but, for anyone wanting to bring it up as a fighter, it's certainly going to have the physical characteristics necessary for success.

 

Obviously an object suitable for a weapon must be very 'close at hand'- I wasn't suggesting forgetting about the knife attacker while you spend a few minutes rummaging through drawers :)

 

i.e. you're attacked on the street- a cars passing, can you barge into the attacker and try and put him/her under the car? That's a weapon.

 

is there a brick laying around- not brilliant against a knife, but better than a fist for redering him/her quickly unconscious.

 

etc, etc. Of course, anyone with genuine self-defence training (as opposed to black belt fantasists) would likely have been aware that something was building up and will have instintively clocked the immediate area for any object that could be used as a weapon.

 

My 'comparison' of a knife attack with a staffy attack was purely pointing out that, like a knife attack, where, regardless of how much training you've had, you are in a very serious situation which, most likely, will end in you being dead or in intensive care, similarly, if attacked by a viscious staffy intent on killing you, you're likely to be badly hurt/maimed/killed.

 

I agree, most chavs get them cos they look hard, and, because they have a reputation for being fighting dogs. Most chavs don't have the knowledge or discipline necessary to train a staffy to fight other dogs.

 

Some do though, and, increasingly, in this world where knives are very common and guns are brought into play for the longer running disputes, staffys and similar dogs are being acquired for attacking and defending against humans.

 

I recall a documentary on this subject where the interviewer was talking to some guy flanked by 2 dogs (don't recall if they were staffys, but they were defintily fighter-looking dogs) and he asked the guy what he would have to do to make them attack him (the interveiwer). The reply was than he'd simply 'look at him' i.e. he'd trained the dogs to lethally attack anyone when prompted by a particular look form the owner.

 

Perhaps most important though, is that for a dog, any dog, but here we're talking about chav owned staffys, no training is necessary to make them viscious, in fact it's often a complete absence of training that results in a dog being viscious.

 

If you do not train a dog, the chances are good that it will end up being a problem dog, and, no disrespect to chavs, but, a portion of them get a dog cos it 'looks hard' and end up not having the knowledge or inclination to put in the work necessary to train it.

 

As we seem to be going around in circles (and somewhat off topic) I'm just going to make one point. Then I'm leaving it at that.

 

You seem to keep labouring the point that I'm some kind of 'black belt fantasist'. I learned several martial arts (after street fighting for many years) and put them into practice as a competition fighter. I was quite successful until I conciously made the decision (which many people tried to talk me out of) to stop fighting because I found it increasingly distant to my moral code.

 

'Genuine self defence training' rarely teaches how a situation is escalating, only experience does that, all training can do is give pointers (which may or may not be useful depending on the quality of the teacher). It's very rare that in a dangerous situation all the subtleties of the build up will have been noticed. In reality situations occur, you react, it's how you react that makes the difference.

 

I don't have a 'black belt' (and have never trained in a discipline that awards them), but I am totally confident in my abilities. I was a fighter, not part of a 'club'.

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I tried to post this last night, but the Forum was down for maintenance:-

 

One wheel Dave:-

I completely agree with your last few sentences, about the idiots owning "status dogs".

 

The ones used for fighting are not usually family dogs, owned by responsible people; the fighting dogs are owned by the idiots, as a rule.

 

In the past, it wasn't Staffies, or staffy types, that were headlined as "devil dogs", it was your Rotties and Dobermanns, 20/30 years or so ago, and before that, dogs like German Shepherds which had the reputations for being nasty.

 

The press sensationalise it. Have you ever noticed, in such as the "daily fail", they always seem to print the same picture, of the same, jaw-snapping bull-terrier, to illustrate any "dog attack/ dog-bite" story?

 

I'm sometimes unsure if they only have that one illustration because all the other staffies are at home, cuddling their owners...? lol

 

Any dog can be a "bad" dog if it's not controlled/ trained/ socialised properly, or owned by some plonker who thinks of owning such a dog:- "It makez me lukk well 'ardd! or "I'll mekk meself sum REYT money churning litters of pups out of her"....

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As we seem to be going around in circles (and somewhat off topic) I'm just going to make one point. Then I'm leaving it at that.

 

You seem to keep labouring the point that I'm some kind of 'black belt fantasist'. I learned several martial arts (after street fighting for many years) and put them into practice as a competition fighter. I was quite successful until I conciously made the decision (which many people tried to talk me out of) to stop fighting because I found it increasingly distant to my moral code.

 

 

Oh no- I've not called you a 'black belt fantasist'. I have referred to 'black belt fantasists', but at no point said that you were one.

 

Till your last post you've given no concrete details of your actual fighting experience, so I was in no position to comment on your abilites.

 

 

 

'Genuine self defence training' rarely teaches how a situation is escalating, only experience does that, all training can do is give pointers (which may or may not be useful depending on the quality of the teacher). It's very rare that in a dangerous situation all the subtleties of the build up will have been noticed. In reality situations occur, you react, it's how you react that makes the difference.

 

I don't have a 'black belt' (and have never trained in a discipline that awards them), but I am totally confident in my abilities. I was a fighter, not part of a 'club'.

 

'Genuine self defence training' always covers how situation escalate into violence- if it didn't, it wouldn't be genuine self defence training, because, if one understands how situations escalate into violence, one is in a position to be well out of harms way before it gets violent, or, to be able to defuse the escalation before it reaches the violence stage.

 

Genuine self defence is not about beating an attacker into submission when there was an oportunity for defusion or escape.

 

Many arts claiming to be 'self defense' are not genuine, which is probably the cause of the confusion.

 

Genuine self defense not only 'covers' how situations escalate into violence- they practice it by setting up realistic and highly stressful scenarios where participants how to deal with the build up from everyday situation, via (usually) the typical verbal buildups that lead directly into devastating violence.

 

These are things that, in traditional karate schools and even most kickboxing/mma gyms are either not covered, or, at best, occasionally touched upon (after all, kickboxing and mma are primarily focused on the sport aspects)- they tend to be more applicable to dealing with the violence that occurs after the escalation process has run it's course.

 

We are being off-topic now, as, like I mentioned before, getting in a fight with a staffy (or any dog) is not like getting into a fight with a human :)

 

(although, interestingly, probably the most useful 'self defense' against a staffy would involve a good understanding of the 'dog escalation into violence' process, along with the instinctive continuous assessment of the environment that 'genuine' self defense training fosters).

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Pitbulls (or any dog the experts deem to be 'of type') are already banned in the UK

 

Doesnt work though, I must see a dozen or more of these "types" every single day of the week on my travels round S5 alone.

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Doesnt work though, I must see a dozen or more of these "types" every single day of the week on my travels round S5 alone.

 

I see quite a few myself, I think they're mostly staffies crossed with a bigger dog, like a mastiff or something similar. Bred to have the looks, and the size of a pit bull terrier. What most people actually own when they claim it is a 'pit bull' is a large dog with pit bull type features. These too, as well as the actual pit bull terrier types are banned in the UK, but can be kept if neutered, tattooed, licenced, and muzzled in public (and maybe a few other things)

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