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Erich von Daniken the multiple-convicted fraudster?

 

But you cannot fault his books! Chariots of the Gods which he wrote while on trial and which Gods from Outer Space he wrote while in prison :hihi:

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But you cannot fault his books! Chariots of the Gods which he wrote while on trial and which Gods from Outer Space he wrote while in prison :hihi:

 

Well, yes, you can fault his books, he got stuff wrong and made up other stuff...

 

Errors and omissions

I also hope for the continuing popularity of books like Chariots of the Gods? in high school and college logic courses, as object lessons in sloppy thinking. I know of no recent books so riddled with logical and factual errors as the works of von Däniken.

—Carl Sagan, Foreword to The Space Gods Revealed[16]

 

 

The iron pillar of Delhi, erected by Chandragupta II the Great

In Chariots of the Gods?, Däniken wrote that a non-rusting iron pillar in Delhi, India was evidence of extraterrestrial influence.[17] In a later Playboy interview, when told that the column showed some signs of rust and its method of construction was well understood, Däniken said that since writing the book he had learned of investigations reaching other conclusions, and no longer considered the pillar to be a mystery.[18][19]

In The Gold of the Gods von Däniken wrote of being guided through artificial tunnels in a cave under Ecuador, Cueva de los Tayos, containing gold, strange statues and a library with metal tablets, which he considered to be evidence of ancient space visitors. The man whom he said showed him these tunnels, Juan Moricz, told Der Spiegel that von Däniken's descriptions came from a long conversation and that the photos in the book had been "fiddled".[20] Von Däniken told Playboy that although he had seen the library and other places he had described, he had fabricated some of the events to add interest to his book.[21][10][22] Later in 1978 he said that he had never been in the cave pictured in his book but in a "side entrance", and that he had fabricated the whole descend to the cave.[22] A geologist examined the area and found no cave systems.[20] Däniken also wrote about a collection of gold objects held by local priest Father Crespi, who had special permission from the Vatican to make archeological research.[20] But an archeologist reported to Der Spiegel that, while there were some good pieces, many were just local imitations for tourists, and that Crespi has difficulty distinguishing brass from gold.[20]

Dr. Samuel Rosenberg said that the "Book of Dyzan", referred to by von Däniken,[23] was "a fabrication superimposed on a gigantic hoax concocted by Madame Blavatsky." He also says that the "Tulli Papyrus", cited by von Däniken in one of his books,[23] is likely cribbed from the Book of Ezekiel, and quoted Dr. Nolli (through Dr. Walter Ramberg, Scientific Attache at the U.S. embassy in Rome), then current Director of the Egyptian Section of the Vatican Museum, as "suspect[ing] that Tulli was taken in and that the papyrus is a fake."[24] According to NYT's Richard R. Lingerman, it is likely that von Däniken obtained these references from UFO books that mentioned them as real documents.[23]

Von Däniken brought the Nazca Lines to public prominence with his 1968 book Chariots of the Gods?,[25] attracting so many tourists that researcher Maria Reiche had to spend much of her own time and money preserving them.[26] Von Daniken said that the lines were built following instructions from extraterrestrial beings, to be used as airfields for their spaceships.[27] In his 1998 book Arrival of The Gods, he added that some of the pictures depicted extraterrestrials.[27] Archeologists are sure that they were made by pre-columbian civilizations for cultural purposes, and they have not bothered refuting this sort of speculations.[27] Silverman and Proulx say this silence from archaeologists has harmed the profession and the Peruvian nation.[27] The idea was not original of von Däniken, it started as a joke made by people who first saw the lines from the air,[25] and had already been published by other people.[28] One of the cropped photos in Chariots of the Gods?, claimed by von Däniken to be similar to the markings of a modern airport, was only the knee joint of one of the bird figures and was quite small in size; Däniken says that it was an error in the first edition, and that he wasn't the one who wrote that claim in the book, but the error has not been corrected in later editions.[25][29]

Von Däniken wrote in Chariots of the Gods? that a version of the Piri Reis map that the map depicted some Antarctic mountains that were and still are buried into ice, and could only be mapped with modern equipment. His theory relies on the book of Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings by Charles Hapgood. A. D. Crown in Some Trust in Chariots explains how this is simply wrong. The map in von Däniken's book only extends 5 degrees south of the equator, ending in Cape São Roque, which means that it doesn't extend to the Antarctica. Däniken also said that the map showed some distortions that would only happen if its was an aerial view taken from a spaceship flying above El Cairo, but in fact it doesn't extend enough to the South to cause visible distortions in an aerial view. Von Däniken also asserts the existence of a legend saying that a god gave the map to a priest, the god being an extraterrestrial being. But Piri Reis said that he had drawn that map himself using old maps, and the map is consistent with the cartographic knowledge at that time.[30] Also, the map is not "absolutely accurate" as claimed by von Däniken, since it contains many errors and omissions;[31] a fact that von Däniken didn't correct when he covered the map again his 1998 book Odyssey of the Gods.[32] Others authors had already published this same idea, a fact that von Dâniken didn't recognize until 1974 in an interview to Playboy magazine.[33]

The Nova documentary The Case of the Ancient Astronauts shows that all the claims made by Däniken about the Pyramid of Cheops were wrong in all accounts. The technique of construction is well understood, we know perfectly what tools they used, we can still see the marks of those tools in the quarries, and there are many tools preserved in museums. Däniken claims that it would have taken them too long to cut all the blocks necessary and drag them to the construction site in time to build the Great Pyramid in only 20 years, but Nova shows how easy and fast it is to cut a block of stone, and shows the rollers used in transportation. He also claims that Egyptians suddenly started making pyramids out of nowhere, but there are several pyramids that show the progress made by Egyptian architects while they were perfecting the technique from simple mastabas to later pyramids. Däniken claims that the height of the pyramid multiplied by 1 million was the distance to the Sun, but the number falls too short. He also claims that Egyptians couldn't align the edges so perfectly to true North without advanced technology that only aliens could give them, but Egyptians knew of very simple methods to find North via star observation, and it's trivial to make straight edges.[34]

Däniken claimed that the Sarcophagus of Palenque depicted a spacemen sitting on a rocket-powered spaceship, wearing a spacesuit. However, archaeologists see nothing special with the figure, a dead Mayan monarch who is wearing traditional Mayan hairdo and jewelry, surrounded by Mayan symbols can be observed in other Mayan drawings. The right hand is not handling any rocket controls, but simply making a traditional Mayan gesture, that other figures in the sides of the lid also make, and is not holding anything. The rocket shape is actually two serpents joining their heads at the bottom, with the rocket flames being the beards of the serpents. The rocket motor under the figure is the face of a monster, symbol of the underworld.[35]

Von Däniken put forward photographs of ancient stones in Peru, with carvings of men using telescopes, detailed world maps, and advanced medical operations, all beyond the knowledge of ancient Peruans. But the PBS television series Nova determined that the stones were modern, and located the potter who made them. This potter makes stones daily and sells them to tourists. Von Däniken had visited the potter and examined the stones himself, but he didn't mention this in his book. He says that he didn't believe the potter when he said that he had made the stones. Däniken says that he asked Doctor Cabrera, a local surgeon who owns the museum, and Cabrera had told him that the potter's claims were a lie and that the stones were ancient. But the potter had proof that Cabrera had thanked him for providing the stones for the museum. Däniken claimed that the stones at the museum were very different from those made by the potter, but the Nova reporters oversaw the manufacturing of one stone and confirmed that it was very similar to those in the museum.[36]

Kenneth Feder accused von Däniken of European ethnocentrism,[37] while John Flenley and Paul Bahn suggested that views such as his interpretation of the Easter Island statues "ignore the real achievements of our ancestors and constitute the ultimate in racism: they belittle the abilities and ingenuity of the human species as a whole."[38]

Ronald Story published The Space Gods Revealed: A Close Look At The Theories of Erich Von Däniken in 1976, written in response to the evidence presented in Däniken's Chariots of the Gods?. It was reviewed as "a coherent and much-needed refutation of Von Däniken's theories".[39]

A 2004 article in Skeptic Magazine states that Däniken took many of the book's concepts from The Morning of the Magicians, that this book in turn was heavily influenced by the Cthulhu Mythos, and that the core of the ancient astronaut theory originates in H. P. Lovecraft's short stories "The Call of Cthulhu" written in 1926, and "At the Mountains of Madness" written in 1931.[40]

Speaking in a 2001 documentary, Von Däniken said that although he could not conclusively prove to the scientific community that any of the items in his archive were of alien origin, he felt that "today's science" would not accept such evidence, as "the time is simply not right". He argued that it was first necessary to "prepare" mankind for a "wonderful new world".[41]

 

But I do agree that ancient man regarding extra terrestrials as "gods" sounds more plausible than any of the many different religious texts.

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Err... no! No-one lives in a haunted home.

 

How do you know that?

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Well, yes, you can fault his books, he got stuff wrong and made up other stuff...

 

 

 

But I do agree that ancient man regarding extra terrestrials as "gods" sounds more plausible than any of the many different religious texts.

 

Exactly :hihi::hihi: I wouldnt want to place my oath with Erich von Däniken, but he has a point. Even though he embezzled all that money for his research.

Edited by meggymoo

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I'd actually like to see a one of these paranormal nights setup by non-vigil types. We went on one once for just for a bit of light hearted fun really, but the thing that spoilt it was the vigil character who was 100% that there were ghosts everywhere that he could see and no-one else could. He just made himself look an idiot really.

 

Whether people believe or not, a scientific investigation type event (like ghost hunters on tv) where the staff aren't trying to scare you or push you into believing one way or the other would attract a few punters through the door.

 

Maybes I'm just talking rubbish though

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Anyone CAN recreate the genuine working of a Ouija Board. It's called ideomotor effect, as explained in the patent application for the Ouija Board.

 

I don't think that's going to win you the cash ;). The fact that the prize remains unclaimed, despite the number of people in the world that claim special powers and believe in the supernatural - it ends the debate for me. It's not just a cash prize - it's a chance to turn everything we think we know on it's head.

 

The supernatural is an entertaining subject, but in my view it doesn't make the the list of possible explanations for anything. I don't think that's any more closed-minded than not believing in Father Christmas.

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Does the fact that I don't believe in Unicorns mean that they don't exist? The same with Santa.

 

Why not?maybe they did exist,but became extinct.Maybe a randy Rhinoceros romped with a Zebra and well you know the rest.

 

They have only just found the remains of a 42ft long snake,with a two foot wide head.If until they have proved it, would you have believed it previously?

Edited by Total Chaos

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I wonder if ghosts sit around campfires and tell Pac-Man stories

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Guest
...The supernatural is an entertaining subject, but in my view it doesn't make the the list of possible explanations for anything. I don't think that's any more closed-minded than not believing in Father Christmas.

A request for those who believe in the existence of ghosts, goblins and fairies at the bottom of the garden to offer up sound, replicable, verifiable evidence in support of their claims, evidence which might get a passing grade on the Randi test, in fact, or, at the very least, stand up to prolonged scrutiny from those who know their orbs from their dust clouds, is the very opposite of closed-mindedness. Provide me with convincing evidence, and I'll happily acknowledge that I've been wrong all this time.

 

But, to quote

:

Throughout history,

Every mystery ever solved

Has turned out to be

Not Magic.

I'd bet a small body part on that not changing any time soon.

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Guest
Not to poke the fire as such.. but just say for example, proof was found.. WHY would the foundation admit defeat and wouldn't they be discredited themselves? ...

To continue the theme:

You're so sure of your position

But you're just closed-minded

I think you'll find

Your faith in science and tests

Is just as blind

As the faith of any fundamentalist”

 

“Hm that's a good point, let me think for a bit

Oh wait, my mistake, it's absolute bull****.

Science adjusts its beliefs based on what's observed

Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved.

If you show me

That, say, homeopathy works,

Then I will change my mind

I'll spin on a ******* dime

I'll be embarrassed as hell,

But I will run through the streets yelling

It's a miracle! Take physics and bin it!

Water has memory!

And while it's memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is infinite

It somehow forgets all the poo it's had in it!

 

You show me that it works and how it works

And when I've recovered from the shock

I will take a compass and carve Fancy That on the side of my [redacted]".

A scientist adjusts his or her position to take into account appropriately convincing evidence. It's the cornerstone of the job. If such evidence was presented, I wouldn't doubt that Randi et al would acknowledge that they'd got it wrong. I don't think they're holding their collective breath though.

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Guest
Oh I totally agree with you about scientists but by looking on the Randi forum especially in the 'Challenge Applications' section.. it rather does seem as though they are unwilling to test a LOT of people for rather obscure reasons.

 

I don't think they would like to lose their credibility and admit they were wrong.. it makes them look foolish, and it denounces the whole reasoning behind the foundation in one fell swoop should someone demonstrate 'something' they cant prove false does it not.

It's not the job of the Foundation to 'prove false' anyone's claim; it's the job of the applicant to provide suitably convincing supporting evidence under appropriate conditions.

 

Should such astonishing evidence be presented, I reckon that loss of credibility and looking a bit foolish would be secondary to the excitement they'd feel at having a new frontier of scientific investigation open up to them. Of course, that someone passes the Randi test doesn't necessarily imply that whatever they've demonstrated is supernaturally-derived; it might be that the phenomenon represents something new, exciting but very firmly terrestrial, that we've yet to encounter. A few hundred years before modern advances in neurology and psychiatry we were exorcising demons from schizophrenics. Who knows what medical science will offer up during the next few hundred years?

 

ETA: And, of course, one test passed, however intriguing, isn't going to rock science to its foundations or have folk instantly renouncing their positions. Rinse, repeat, repeat and repeat might be a start.

Edited by Guest

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It's not the job of the Foundation to 'prove false' anyone's claim; it's the job of the applicant to provide suitably convincing supporting evidence under appropriate conditions.

 

Should such astonishing evidence be presented, I reckon that loss of credibility and looking a bit foolish would be secondary to the excitement they'd feel at having a new frontier of scientific investigation open up to them. Of course, that someone passes the Randi test doesn't necessarily imply that whatever they've demonstrated is supernaturally-derived; it might be that the phenomenon represents something new, exciting but very firmly terrestrial, that we've yet to encounter. A few hundred years before modern advances in neurology and psychiatry we were exorcising demons from schizophrenics. Who knows what medical science will offer up during the next few hundred years?

 

ETA: And, of course, one test passed, however intriguing, isn't going to rock science to its foundations or have folk instantly renouncing their positions. Rinse, repeat, repeat and repeat might be a start.

 

hiya a good few years ago i started a new job and one of my new workmates was one i had known nearly all my life and when he told me that he was a spiritualist at first i didn't believe him until he told me some of the things that had happend to him, one in fact was when him and his wife was on the oard it came through that his sister was pregnant so he went to his sister and brother in laws home to find why she hadn't said and she asked how he had found out and when he told her she started crying and said she had b een to the doctors that very morning, and later he was given a date a week before the one the doctor gave and this one was spot on, there were quite a few more he told us.

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