Why can't we have a proper airport in Sheffield?

[buck 11]

London City Airport is close to Canary Wharf and all the highly paid city business people who have massive expenses freely available for air transport. It's not a destination that many holiday makers from Sheffield would use, nor a lot of businessmen from here either.

 

East Midlands Rail offer a regular half hourly service to London in less than 2.5 hours. That's enough for most travellers, although shaving 30 minutes off would be better - and soon might become possible.

 

It took years to make London City anywhere near commercially viable. Now it offers flights to many destinations, see; http://www.londoncityairport.com/travelandbooking/destinations/

 

My elder son used to use it from time to time. It is very good. However, in order to provide the range of flights to make commercial sense it needed a large pool of business travellers travelling on a regular basis. It now has that. Quick communications to the City help enormously, and so do quick check in and baggage recovery.

 

London City is a hub that Sheffield could never have been. The amount of wealth close by is often unappreciated outside the London area.

 

It's not whether it's practical for the flights to take place, it's whether enough would use them. The airlines, who tend to know about these things, didn't think they would, so the flights didn't happen. Those that were provided didn't offer enough hope that more passengers would be forthcoming some time soon.

 

The site must now be utilised for the good of the local economy. Pressure should be concentrated on speeding up the rail link - electrification would help. Doncaster is still there and, if enough use it, more services will be offered. If they don't, it may follow Sheffield into oblivion.

I bow to your greater knowledge, since I am talking from a distance. It was merely a suggestion. If there had been a market it would have worked well. Some years ago there was an effort to turn the old car parking areas for the Montreal 1967 Expo into an inner city airport using stol aircraft to Toronto and Quebec City. It ran for a while but eventually failed. Chicago had Meigs Airport in downtown for the use of general aviation and bizjets. Though popular, Mayor Daly sent in bulldozers to tear out the runway even though aircraft were parked there. NYC has a busy but expensive heliport for air taxis. One of my friends is a pilot there flying from Northern Connecticut on a call basis.

[Hydrochillim 10]

Sheffield does have an airport and its closer to the City centre than "Ringway", (i.e. Manchester airport), is to Manchester.

 

Yes, its close to Doncaster and if Sheffield had not been so insular and supported the road to Robin Hood airport some years ago then Sheffield's airport would be just 35minutes from the City centre by now.

 

The road from M18 junction 3 is now scheduled and earlier comments about the problems Sheffield has are absolutely right and don't forget that only one day was lost for flights from Doncaster during the lat three years of the RAF being based there! (Compare with Leeds/Bradford or even Manchester where bad weather causes some cancellations most years).

 

Come on, the glass is half full and the only way to get airline operators to run to and from Doncaster, (or any other airport), is by showing them that we can create a demand.

 

The solution is in Sheffielder's hands. Use it or lose it and the alternative is no airport at all nearer than East Midlands or Manchester.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Hydrochillim

[BSMan 10]

Hydreochillim, no offence but what have you been smoking?

[Hydrochillim 10]

How can you make a remark like that without being offensive?

 

You obviously have closed mind which exactly matches the problem that I described.

 

How many times do you fly each year, which airports do you use, & have you used RH?

[Asif 10]

Flat land needed.....what was there before the airport...a great big hill....

[Cyclone 10]

Thomson and Thomas Cook have a pretty large presense at Doncaster so that is not true. Going back to my argument. What use are package holidays to the local economy, as opposed to three or four daily flights to a major hub?

They hardly represent the majority of package holidays do they, just a small proportion, and mainly summer holidays (which doesn't happen to be when I take the most).

 

Doncaster isnt attractive enough for Sheffield users. When shopping around online I always use Manchester due to the sheer number of flights and flexibility on offer there. Not enough people exist to support Doncaster Airport.

That's a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it. They don't offer enough flights, so you don't use them, so they don't offer more flights.

[BSMan 10]

You obviously have closed mind which exactly matches the problem that I described.

 

How many times do you fly each year, which airports do you use, & have you used RH?

 

At the moment I fly 3-4 times a year. I used Robin Hood a couple of times when it opened, and was prepared to support the flights it had on offer. I also used the easyjet flight to Amsterdam and counted about 40 people on the plane, a plane that seats 150! Easyjet need an average of 110-30 passengers on every flight to break even, they didnt get anywhere near that from Doncaster. I tend to use Manchester and East Midlands.

 

They hardly represent the majority of package holidays do they, just a small proportion, and mainly summer holidays (which doesn't happen to be when I take the most).

 

Monarch (Cosmos) are to invest in Leeds and East Midlands soon rather than Doncaster. The Sheffield demand can be met at East Midlands, from where demand up and down the M1 corridor can be reached. Do you see where I'm coming from? The same can be said for most other tour operators.

 

That's a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it. They don't offer enough flights, so you don't use them, so they don't offer more flights.

 

They can only do so when they know demand exists. There are a number of ways that airlines will be able to assess demand, even before they start a route.

[evildrneil 14]

We live within an hours travel of four sizeable airports and given the increase in fuel etc. I can see air travel rapidly moving to a more expensive product. Do we really want/need another airport just to say we have one? Surely the money such a venture would cost could be better used for something more productive and long lasting?

[Hydrochillim 10]

At the moment I fly 3-4 times a year. I used Robin Hood a couple of times when it opened, and was prepared to support the flights it had on offer. I also used the easyjet flight to Amsterdam and counted about 40 people on the plane, a plane that seats 150! Easyjet need an average of 110-30 passengers on every flight to break even, they didnt get anywhere near that from Doncaster. I tend to use Manchester and East Midlands.

 

 

 

Monarch (Cosmos) are to invest in Leeds and East Midlands soon rather than Doncaster. The Sheffield demand can be met at East Midlands, from where demand up and down the M1 corridor can be reached. Do you see where I'm coming from? The same can be said for most other tour operators.

 

We are in raging agreement for there are far more than 40 people from the RH catchment area going to Amsterdam every day! (That is a fact). Similar demands exist for other destinations and the success of an airport is to get scheduled flights rather than charters.

 

However, it is extremely difficult to get people to change their habits so most didn't even look at RH when they booked and the flights were available.

 

Pity for I remember Stanstead opening and the similarity is the ability to park your car and walk straight from the car park into the terminal.

 

It should be remembered that the public enquiry had a very strong opposer for RH and that was Manchester airport. They saw it as a real threat and they should know but we all let the opportunity pass us by.

 

They can only do so when they know demand exists. There are a number of ways that airlines will be able to assess demand, even before they start a route.

 

Your final comment is also very true. Why did the Amsterdam route start from RH? The operator knew there was, (and still is), a demand, they were simply surprised we didn't take it up!

[1978 14]

Summing up, Sheffield airport defied commercial logic and Robin Hood will struggle too!

 

An airport costs a lot of cash to build and equip, and lots more to run. To pay for that it needs lots of aircraft landing and taking off. Every day.

 

Airlines want to operate lots of full aircraft. Every day.

 

The airlines can offer very low fares to attract new business, but only for so long. If business doesn't look likely they won't even start. If they can't 'buy' new business with low fares they'll soon stop.

 

It's very hard to create the critical mass from a standing start.

 

There are 4 basic markets for an airport. Holidaymakers, business people, freight and light aircraft/helicopters.

 

Most posters on SF seem to be holidaymakers. It needs large numbers of holidaymakers to fill regular flights, every day - they don't travel often enough to create enough volume.

 

It's the regular business users paying top rates that pay for most passenger airports. See below for examples.

 

Smaller airports can fill the revenue gap with light aircraft and helicopters, but they need a lot of them to pay for all the infrastructure.

 

Freight can be lucrative - Coventry airport gave up passenger traffic a few years ago and now concentrates on freight and training flights - after going bust!

 

Have a look at the statistics here; http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/RPG_AviationTrends_Q1_2012.pdf

 

Then start digging here; http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/?page_id=250

 

You'll spot that against increasing numbers of flights and passengers at most airports, Robin Hood was down from 2010 to 2011. Why?

 

Probably initially discounted flights and fares to attract new trade were being phased out.

 

Both my sons used to fly frequently on business. On occasions it could be 2 or 3 return flights a week! For the sake of their health I'm glad their current roles don't require it. However, frequent flyers like them are what pays for airports. Two examples.

 

1. In Amsterdam, misses last flight to Humberside meaning he wouldn't get back until lunchtime the following day. Flies to Aberdeen, then down to Humberside as one of only 3 passengers on the flight - paid top rates. Made meeting following morning - knackered!

 

2. At Heathrow on Sunday evening for flight to Milan. Vital contract to be signed Monday morning at culmination of 12 months international work. All flights halted due to fire at fuel depot. Flights at first delayed, then cancellations begin. Unable to get a flight to Milan until Monday lunchtime. Quick check of available flights reveals possibilities to get to Munich or Nice. Nice looks nearer so takes that option. Price no issue. Gets there later than scheduled at 00.15. Hire car firms now closed. Pleads with lone member of staff who is happy to rent out a beat up Italian Fiat he wants off his hands back to Italy. Drives through foothills of Alps in a blizzard, alone but for a solitary snow plough, and gets to hotel about 06.00. Deadline met!

 

These are just two examples. In these sort of situations the company pays what it takes. That's how contracts are won that keep people employed.

 

It's wishful thinking that airports can survive primarily on relatively few seasonal holidaymakers. Luton possibly does. A few others have carved a niche from that. It's a tough game where the weak go to the wall.

[Cyclone 10]

At the moment I fly 3-4 times a year. I used Robin Hood a couple of times when it opened, and was prepared to support the flights it had on offer. I also used the easyjet flight to Amsterdam and counted about 40 people on the plane, a plane that seats 150! Easyjet need an average of 110-30 passengers on every flight to break even, they didnt get anywhere near that from Doncaster. I tend to use Manchester and East Midlands.

I've flown back from Frankfurt mid week before and been 1 of about 4 people on the plane. The service still runs AFAIK though.

 

 

 

Monarch (Cosmos) are to invest in Leeds and East Midlands soon rather than Doncaster. The Sheffield demand can be met at East Midlands, from where demand up and down the M1 corridor can be reached. Do you see where I'm coming from? The same can be said for most other tour operators.

Yeah, the motorway link should have been planned in from the start for RH.

 

 

They can only do so when they know demand exists. There are a number of ways that airlines will be able to assess demand, even before they start a route.

Surely the people that currently fly from EM or Manc are part of the local demand. There are the combined populations of Sheffield, Rotherham and Doncaster at least who would find it more convenient than going to Leeds Bradford, EM or Manc.

[BHRemovals 10]

Its not flat enough