Traffic signals in Sheffield

[Cyclone 10]

Same problem as when lights don't work now..

 

No it's not. If the lights are out the pedestrian also knows they are out.

 

The way it was described earlier has a potential dangerous failure mode where both sets of traffic (driver and pedestrian) believe they have the go signal.

It's always safer to display a positive go signal, that way a failure of a bulb or the complete system gives both sets an implicit stop signal, which doesn't result in people being run down as everyone behaves cautiously.

[Cyclone 10]

If you are talking about the roundabout below the University, I've always known it as Brook Hill Roundabout. Where has "square" come from?

Sorry, I keep doing that, borrowing part of the name from Park Square roundabout for some reason.

 

If the signals you are talking about thee are the ones as you come off the roundabout down Hanover Way, the pedestrian crossings look to operate on demand, they aren't co-ordinated with other signals.

So all your talk about the highly co-ordinated system isn't true then.

 

As I have said before and you don't seem to understand, you can only co-ordinate in one direction.

Or in the case of hanover way, in no direction at all.

It's possible that the IRR is co-ordinated away from Parkway, I don't have personal experience of that road as it was built after I left UTC. However, I use that road quite a bit and can't recall having the same problem that you describe.

You can't have missed the problem if you are heading towards the parkway, it doesn't vary (by time or day) if you are stopped on DDW at the junction with Savile Street then you will be stopped at the junction with the Wicker.

Which must mean that the coordination direction is for the very limited traffic coming through the wicker, instead of the main IRR flowing too and from the Parkway.

 

And in the other direction, from the parkway, if you set off from the parkway on the green light, you will be stopped at the Wicker if not the one before.

[Planner1 437]

So all your talk about the highly co-ordinated system isn't true then.

It's highly co-ordinated where it can be and needs to be.

 

Because they choose not to co-ordinate in one location does not mean that they can't or don't elsewhere.

[Ridgewalk 99]

Yesterday I brought a relative from Hallamshire Hospital to Barnsley, the route I usually go is past the Wednesday ground and up Halifax road. Between St Philips rd until you emerge at Grenoside I've counted 33 sets of traffic lights. It's got to be the most tedious journey. At the moment at Greno there are road works. Two weeks ago on the way to Sheffield from Barnsley I had to wait 45 minutes at the roadworks. Returning the opposite direction about 20 minutes later the wait was 10 minutes. Why the massive discrepancy. You can just visualise the authorities reading this thread and yawning or laughing. Not important for them

[Cyclone 10]

It's highly co-ordinated where it can be and needs to be.

 

Because they choose not to co-ordinate in one location does not mean that they can't or don't elsewhere.

 

So some of it isn't highly coordinated. It's certainly not because 2 sets of pedestrian crossings and a junction are too difficult to co-ordinate, so it must be because the big queue back onto one of the cities busiest roundabouts doesn't warrant coordination in the lights that cause it, is that right?

[AYBABTU 10]

Why is it that pedestrian crossings are activated on demand even if the crossing has only just turned back to green (for the cars)?

 

A specific example is where junction road joins hunters bar roundabout.

 

The crossing here has no delay for pedestrians - as soon as the light turns green for cars - someone pushes the button and it immediately turns red.

 

End result - traffic all the way up junction road most of the time.

 

Surely its not rocket science to have crossings with timers that count down and make pedestrians wait a little? I have seen these in Spain .

[BarryRiley 10]

Why is it that pedestrian crossings are activated on demand even if the crossing has only just turned back to green (for the cars)?

 

A specific example is where junction road joins hunters bar roundabout.

 

The crossing here has no delay for pedestrians - as soon as the light turns green for cars - someone pushes the button and it immediately turns red.

 

End result - traffic all the way up junction road most of the time.

 

Surely its not rocket science to have crossings with timers that count down and make pedestrians wait a little? I have seen these in Spain .

 

I'm sure the answer is the same as every other road or traffic improvement answer. It would cost far too much money to re-time this signal and all current government money coming in to the city is immediately ringfenced for speed cameras and speed limit reduction. Sorry.

[Eater Sundae 12]

Why is it that pedestrian crossings are activated on demand even if the crossing has only just turned back to green (for the cars)?

 

A specific example is where junction road joins hunters bar roundabout.

 

The crossing here has no delay for pedestrians - as soon as the light turns green for cars - someone pushes the button and it immediately turns red.

 

End result - traffic all the way up junction road most of the time.

 

Surely its not rocket science to have crossings with timers that count down and make pedestrians wait a little? I have seen these in Spain .

 

I often use junction road at busy times. I agree that the pedestrians seen to get a green light very quickly. However, it rarely adds to overall journey time as we still have to wait to get onto the roundabout, which is the real hold up. (Although this is sometimes made worse by hold ups from the crossing outside what was the Hunter House Hotel). Also, the pedestrian crossing on junction road also stop traffic going up, which it turn can block traffic arriving from Ecclesall Road, which in turn gives us a chance to enter the roundabout from Junction road - so I certainly don't think one aspect of the junction is the problem. Overall, the problem is the overall quantity of traffic (both vehicles and pedestrians)

[Planner1 437]

Surely its not rocket science to have crossings with timers that count down and make pedestrians wait a little? I have seen these in Spain .

The technology that is used in Sheffield and elsewhere in the UK can easily set delays to pedestrians which can vary by time of day etc as required.

 

The question which needs to be asked is why should people who are travelling sustainably be delayed?

 

The amount of priority which can be allowed to pedestrians varys according to the impact which it has on the road network. Basically they get as much priority as can be given without unduly prejudicing overall network perfomance.

 

This is all considered at the design stage and monitored over time.

[BHRemovals 10]

in germany and holland all the lights just stay on green if nowt coming in oposite directio here its just major junctions thst have it

[Planner1 437]

So some of it isn't highly coordinated. It's certainly not because 2 sets of pedestrian crossings and a junction are too difficult to co-ordinate, so it must be because the big queue back onto one of the cities busiest roundabouts doesn't warrant coordination in the lights that cause it, is that right?

I'm aware that the Traffic Control team have looked at that location very carefully and their view is that the current method of control is the best one, bearing in mind all of the demands at that location (which are often conflicting).

 

It is actually quite difficult to co-ordinate adjacent sets of signals to one which has tram and bus priority built-in. The tram priority makes the signals terminate whatever they are doing early to let a tram go through. At a busy junction like that, it makes the sequence very variable, so it's difficult to fit in co-ordination with adjacent crossings at fixed points in the cycle.

 

There are huge volumes of pedestrians crossing there and delaying them unduly will cause safety issues. Safety is paramout for traffic engineers and they will have to bear this in mind in deciding how to control the signals in the area. They always want to keep traffic flowing as well as it possibly can, so, they do not hold up traffic on one of the busiest roads in the city unless they have to.

[quisquose 10]

The question which needs to be asked is why should people who are travelling sustainably be delayed?

 

Because when I am travelling as a pedestrian I expect to be treated with the same respect as myself when I travel on a bike, a bus or a car. I use all these methods and don't expect to be discriminated dependant on the method chosen.

 

As I have said previously I am prepared to wait my turn at crossings, and it infuriates me when I press to button at Hunters Bar and see the light change immediately when the traffic is already gridlocked. For this reason I usually wait before pressing the button, or cross without pressing at all.

 

People are people, we should be treated equally, and when it is busy pedestrians, cyclists, bus users and motorists should expect to be delayed. If I have to wait an extra 20 seconds as a pedestrian then so what? My delay doesn't cause a bottleneck. Usually when I wait at Hunters Bar roundabout in a car the crossing light on Ecclesall Road will be at red, and the roundabout blocked, when I finally get onto the roundabout the crossing light will have turned to red again. This really does feel like the motorist is being shown the proverbial two fingers.