Sheffield one of the most 'at risk' shopping areas in UK

[metalman 21]

You can't, for example, offer an all day rate in car parks that have a six hour limit, without altering the traffic regulation order, which can take several months. Simple changes to the tarriff, like this one, can be done quickly, by notice.

 

I suppose an obvious question would be, why does it take several months? Surely they have a copy of the original order, and you just have to change the price. Why does it then take several months to jump through the legal hoops before it can be done? In any case though, why could they not just reduce the hourly rate so that everybody benefits?

 

So the upshot is, that because there isn't enough in the city centre to occupy most people for more than a couple of hours, for which they'll still pay £3, it isn't really likely to increase the footfall much. Even the most enthusiastic shopper would struggle to spend 6 hours there surely.

[slugger 10]

Maybe you'd like to try reading it again and explain what you find too complex about it.

As for Sheffield being Sheffield, that's a nice little tautology (you might need to Google it) you've got there. Your point is exactly?

As for leaving, I'd rather stay thank you very much and help to turn the city into a brighter more affluent place where people aren't trapped or feel afraid of jettisoning their perceived working class background.

 

This is the middle class inverted snobbery I detest most ! What has gentrifying Burngreave got to with creating a better City Centre You are insulting the people that reside in that area ! Please read on

 

The industrial decline of the 1980s and 90s in South Yorkshire took its toll on Burngreave. High levels of unemployment resulted in poverty and a general decline in the appearance of the area. However Burngreave is now experiencing a change in fortune. This has partly resulted from the determination of local residents to stop the spiral of decay and bring about changes. In addition a huge government funded regeneration programme, Burngreave New Deal for Communities, has been initiated to bring prosperity back to the area. There is a spirit of optimism again, with improvements to houses and green spaces locally. New shops have opened recently to serve the needs of different ethnic communities. It is once again a friendly and welcoming place to live in bustling with life.

 

Certainly not an area that needs gentrifying in my opinion, and it certainly dosnt need middle class/aspiring middle class interfering with something thats working fine ! Maybe wannabe gentries should try it with Hillsborough instead !

 

Talk of gentrifying SCC ? Democracy will be the decider of that one.

 

I would imagine an influx of gentrifying people would want to reside in places like Fulwood or Whirlow rather than Hillsborough, Walkley or Burngreave.

 

The Input needed in this post as regards to a better City Centre should be Realistic. Idealisms wont solve anything

 

The word Gentrify and its related words Should have become extinct with the Victorian era. I hate the words. They remind me too much of Oliver Twist.

 

The tip regarding Google, Ha ha trying to insult my intelligence Heh? Didnt need it thanks (Already use it often to broaden my knowledge)

[Planner1 428]

I suppose an obvious question would be, why does it take several months? Surely they have a copy of the original order, and you just have to change the price. Why does it then take several months to jump through the legal hoops before it can be done? In any case though, why could they not just reduce the hourly rate so that everybody benefits?

 

So the upshot is, that because there isn't enough in the city centre to occupy most people for more than a couple of hours, for which they'll still pay £3, it isn't really likely to increase the footfall much. Even the most enthusiastic shopper would struggle to spend 6 hours there surely.

 

As I have said, if it is just a price change, it can be done by notice, which only takes a few weeks. But, if a change to the price structure is needed, the order either has to be amended, or a new one drafted. That's the way the legal process works.

 

Here's a list of what needs to take place for a new or amended Traffic Regulation Order:

• Traffic Regulations Team neds to draft new legal order or amendments to existing one
  
• Legal Team need to check new draft order or amendments
  
• Legal notice needs to be drafted and sent to press, this has a 4 day lead-in time
  
• Legal notice is published, notices are usually put out on street, consultations are sent to stakeholders
  
• Order is advertised for 3 weeks to allow people to submit comments or objections
  
• If objections are received, the officer promoting the change needs to draft a report to Cabinet Highways Committee, which will detail the comments and objections adn the officer's responses to them. These meetings are monthly and there is a five week lead-in time which allows for the report to be discussed at the correct management board, any amendemnts made and report to be published in the papers for the Committee, on the Council website etc
  
• before submitting the report to the Committee process, the lead officer will need to discuss the objections with other officeers adn see what can be done to overcome the objections. Discussions may take place with the objectors to see whether amendemnts to the proposals can be made which would convince them to withdraw an objection
  
• Once a draft report has been prepared, the lead officer must clear it with their manager
  
• If the manager requires any amendemnts, these musthemn be made before submitting report to Head of Service for comments
  
• Any amendments required by Head of Service must be made before submitting report to Cabinet Portfolio Holder for comment
  
• Any amendments required by Portfolio Holder must be made before submittng report into Cabinet Highways Committee cycle (5 week lead-in)
  
• When the report is discussed at Cabinet Highwas Committee, the Councillors may approve the recommendations, amend them or reject them, or, the report might be deferred to next meeting (monthly)
  

 

3 months is fairly optimistic, some reports have been known to take 6 months to complete the cycle.

 

The Traffic Regulations Team has lost staff in the cuts and is extremely busy and the Legal Team is small and is frighteningly busy! So, if they have some other, more pressing work to process, it can of course take longer!

Edited November 13, 2012 by Planner1

[Cyclone 10]

Massive bureaucratic system with no single person responsible for getting a change pushed through.

[Planner1 428]

Massive bureaucratic system with no single person responsible for getting a change pushed through.

There will be a single officer who is responsible for the scheme or project which requires the new order or change to existing one. They have to project manage the process.

[truman 10]

As I have said, if it is just a price change, it can be done by notice, which only takes a few weeks. But, if a change to the price structure is needed, the order either has to be amended, or a new one drafted. That's the way the legal process works.

 

Here's a list of what needs to take place for a new or amended Traffic Regulation Order:

• Traffic Regualtions Team neds to draft new legal order or amendments to existing one
  
• Legal Team need to check new draft order or amendments
  
• Legal notice needs to be drafted and sent to press, this has a 4 day lead-in time
  
• Legal notice is published, notices are usually put out on street, consultations are sent to stakeholders
  
• Order is advertised for 3 weeks to allow people to submit comments or objections
  
• If objections are received, the officer promoting the change needs to draft a report to Cabinet Highways Committee, which will detail the comments and objections adn the officer's responses to them. These meetings are monthly and there is a five week lead-in time which allows for the report to be discussed at the correct management board, any amendemnts made and report to be published in the papers for the Committee, on the Council website etc
  
• before submitting the report to the Committee process, the lead officer will need to discuss the objections with other officeers adn see what can be done to overcome the objections. Discussions may take place with the objectors to see whether amendemnts to the proposals can be made which would convince them to withdraw an objection
  
• Once a draft report has been prepared, the lead officer must clear it with their manager
  
• If the manager requires any amendemnts, these musthemn be made before submitting report to Head of Service for comments
  
• Any amendments required by Head of Service must be made before submitting report to Cabinet Portfolio Holder for comment
  
• Any amendments required by Portfolio Holder must be made before submittng report into Cabinet Highways Committee cycle (5 week lead-in)
  
• When the report is discussed at Cabinet Highwas Committee, the Councillors may approve the recommendations, amend them or reject them, or, the report might be deferred to next meeting (monthly)
  

 

3 months is fairly optimistic, some reports have been known to take 6 months to complete the cycle.

 

The Traffic Regulations Team has lost staff in the cuts and is extremely busy and the Legal Team is small and is frighteningly busy! So, if they have some other, more pressing work to process, it can of course take longer!

 

I can understand the problem in it taking a few months to do..It's not as though Christmas comes round at the same time every year is it?

[L00b 441]

It's not as though Christmas comes round at the same time every year is it?

PMSL

[Tony 10]

Why does the Council need a Traffic Regulation Order to change the price of off-street parking, when private car park operators don't?

[Planner1 428]

I can understand the problem in it taking a few months to do..It's not as though Christmas comes round at the same time every year is it?

That process isn't what you neeed to do if you are just making a price change. That can be done by notice, which is much much quicker. That's what is happening for the £3 for 6 hours rate which is being introduced up to Christmas.

 

The process I have outlined comes in when you want to put in a new traffic regulaion order (for a new restriction, or a new car park) change a tariff structure ie charge an all day rate on a car park which currently only has an up to six hours rate, or something similar, which went outside the pricing structure that is in the current traffic regualtion order.

 

 

Also, some of the Council's central area car parks have planning conditions on them that they are to be short-stay car parks. If you wanted to put an all day parking rate on them, you would need to apply to have the planning condition removed, which would of course add to the already lengthy process.

[Planner1 428]

Why does the Council need a Traffic Regulation Order to change the price of off-street parking, when private car park operators don't?

Because the Council can levy legally enforcable penalties in their car parks.

 

The private operators cannot.

 

The traffic regulation order is the legal instrument that allows the Council to levy the penalties. It contains details of the prices and the charging structure. If you just want to change the hourly price, you issue a legal notice, which only takes a short time. If you want to change the tarriff structure (ie charge an all day rate on a car park which only allows stays up to say six hours) or introduce a new car park, you need to amend the traffic regulation order, which is the lengthy process I described earlier.

[Tony 10]

In other words, the council ties itself up with unnecessary bureaucracy that the private sector doesn't need because it keeps council officers in continuous gainful employment.

 

Which in turn makes parking in council run spaces so expensive.

 

There is no need for a TRO. The sensible option is to use the same time to remove the TRO's (instead of creating new ones) and operate a car park without them. Then the Council can charge what they like, when they like, by simply using a tuppence ha'penny sticker on the car park price notice.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Tony

[Planner1 428]

In other words, the council ties itself up with unnecessary bureaucracy that the private sector doesn't need because it keeps council officers in continuous gainful employment.

 

Which in turn makes parking in council run spaces so expensive.

 

There is no need for a TRO. The sensible option is to use the same time to remove the TRO's (instead of creating new ones) and operate a car park without them. Then the Council can charge what they like, when they like, by simply using a tuppence ha'penny sticker on the car park price notice.

Yes, the Council could operate in the same way that private parking companies do.

 

But, they already have civil enforcement officers and the people who process traffic regulation orders as these are necessary to enforce on-street parking, so it's not like they are incurring all of those costs just to enforce the off street car parks. The penalties the CEO's hand out do produce a level of income, so that would have to be factored into the parking prices if they weren't collected.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Planner1