School Shooting, 4 Dead

[mort 10]

If you want to bicker about gun control laws I suggest that you do it on a thread dedicated to that subject.

[andygardener 10]

There seems to be some confusion as to whether the former Paras have been cleared or not, french police sources say they have, the French prosecuters office made a statement implying they had not.

[LeMaquis 10]

I would far rather live with a government that respects the rights of the individual and the Constitution...

 

I'd rather live with a government that doesn't let nutters get hold of guns so easily.

 

France seems to have a death rate by firearms more than 10 times higher than ours, he said to keep the mods on board.

Edited March 20, 2012 by LeMaquis

[Magilla 510]

Your attitude is that the law abiding majority should be penalized for the crimes of the few.

 

Odd then that in the drugs thread, that was exactly what you were arguing for!

Edited March 20, 2012 by Magilla

[L00b 441]

Gun control doesn't work worth a damn in Europe does it then?

Well, you could reflect on the fact (SF-ism: factual FACT ) that a weapon of US provenance was used in this instance as in both earlier instances.

 

In France, Cal.45 is legally classed as a 'war' caliber, same as 7.62, and simply cannot be owned legally in France in any way. Can't be owned by civvies at all, for any purpose (even 'professional sporting'). Can't be owned by police (and equivalents - gendarmes/CRS) either, standard and even 'irregular' issue firearms (HK smgs) do not come in this caliber.

 

Some French special ops units may use it (at their discretion), but then you are talking a few dozen people at most, out of 65 million people.

 

Automatic pistols (since this is what is apparently being used in all 3 cases) also cannot be owned legally in France by civvies, even in as 'lowly' a caliber as .22 LR. They are also classed as 'war' weapons. And don't even mention automatic rifles or sub-machine guns.

 

As a civvie, provided you have a hunting license (acquired like a driving license in France, with theory & practice exam), the most/biggest/'baddest' you will be allowed is 8x57 JRS for wild boar and other 'big' game (aside from brenneke's in a 12, the legality of which cartridge "oscillates", shall we say).

 

Of late, gang warfare has gone fairly hot in France (major cities/drug market control - especially Marseilles), and a lot of illegal weapons have surfaced/their use is getting more frequent (most unfortunately). Essentially, 9mm handguns and 7.62 AKs acquired in/smuggled via Eastern Europe, no Cal.45. There has been 1 report last year, of an M4 (US army-style assault rifle) being used in Marseilles, but that was never confirmed - and that would be .223 anyway, still not 45.

 

Gun control is as effective in France as it is in any other democracy which has gun control legislation: for whatever was 'around' until relevant legislation came about, most will have been handed at some stage or other under an 'amnesty' (rinse-repeat every 10 years or so), and some will have been stashed for decades or longer still in case the Germans come back yet again

 

One thing for certain, is that no 'new stuff' will have been brought into the territory in any significant numbers/volume since the legislation kicked in (allowing here for contraband, which would always exist anyway). Of itself, that alone helps mitigate firearm crime. But there is a lot of unregistered/undeclared 'stuff' still around. Just very very very little in the way of Cal.45.

Edited March 20, 2012 by L00b

[andygardener 10]

The vast majority of Colt 45's in underground circulation in France were originally airdropped to Le Maquis (the resistance organisation not our poster) by the US airforce in the war. Gun control is completely off topic on this thread.

[L00b 441]

Gun control is completely off topic on this thread.

Agreed.

 

I just thought useful to give a little more context: in simple terms, it's no easier legally acquiring firearms in France, than it is in the UK. So comparisons with Dunblane, Moat etc., or with firearm ownership in the US for that matter, are completely redundant.

 

For the illegal side of things...well, it's probably easier there, in fairness, since the (land) borders are inherently harder to police than an island, so more 'stuff' must be getting in/through.

Edited March 20, 2012 by L00b

[JFKvsNixon 11]

Gun control doesn't work worth a damn in Europe does it then?

 

First Norway and now this and oh of course the shootings by that nutter in Cumbria last year or the year before

 

The fact that gun crime causes such big headlines here in Europe does suggest something though, over there in the states in 2010 there was just under 9000 people murdered with firearms.

 

Edit:

 

Sorry post this before i read the warnings.

[Rand Hobart 10]

Toulouse shooting: police corner suspect in pre-dawn raid

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9157043/Toulouse-shooting-police-corner-suspect-in-pre-dawn-raid.html

 

Looks like all the early speculation in the media of a right wing terrorist may have been a bit off the mark. Either way, glad they've cornered him.

[fruitisbad 10]

nut job! If he is the guy then I hope he know's or later realises that he is doing the whole peace process a massive disservice.

[cressida 1,570]

Reports that it was revenge for Palestinian children being killed is no good rationale for killing innocent Jewish children

[INTERVIEWER 10]

There are going to be an awful lot of people disappointed that the suspect is NOT an anti-immigration supporter of the far-right...

 

In fact his mother is an Algerian immigrant. The suspect is an Al-Qaeda Jihadist of North African descent. It has been even reported that the suspect used the name Mohammed in email corresepondence with one of the murdered soldiers...