Holme Lane, Hillsborough Bus/Tram Lane - 24hr restrictions - tickets!

[garrence 10]

Take a screengrab of this page on the Council's web site before they correct it:

 

"The restrictions

General traffic must observe the signs displayed and not travel through the bus and tram gate between Monday to Saturday 7am-11am; 3pm-7pm. However Sundays are now free from restrictions."

 

On a page about bus gate enforcement, it's reasonable to interpret this as meaning that you can be in the bus lane on a Sunday or outside of the stated hours.

 

Perhaps the council would argue that you can be in the bus lane but cannot turn right. Their PDF shows a 24-hour "no right turn" restriction. However there isn't a "no right turn" restriction on the bus lane (only the left lane). In fact, there is a mandatory right turn!

 

Keep the PCN and write them a letter. Appeal on the grounds that the alleged contravention did not occur because the council's web page says there are no restrictions at that time. They might play brinkmanship and reject, but must then enclose a form for you to appeal to the adjudicator. I doubt the council will want this to be put in front of an adjudicator.

Edited February 14, 2012 by garrence

[andygardener 10]

The fact that you do not "frequent" the area is not an excuse. If you hold a driving license, you should be able to drive anywhere and be able to understand the signs and roadmarkings. They mean the same EVERYWHERE.

 

You commit the contravention when you ENTER the bus only area. That area is delineated by the thick white lines and the coloured tarmac. It stretches about 80m back from the junction. What good is a sign at the junction if, by the time to get to it, you have already committed the contravention? The designers put signs where they are useful ie in advance of the restriction.

 

That would be the same thick white lines and green tarmac that road users drive through towards the northbound and time dependant tram gate up Langsett. How could people possibly get confused with such fine planning in place?

[garrence 10]

How could people possibly get confused with such fine planning in place?

 

By believing what the Council publish on its website?

[HotPhil 10]

To be fair, crossing the solid white line should be the clue. Or the dashed line onto the coloured road surface with the large writing painted on it.

The confusion of road surface colouring applying in some 24 hour areas and some peak time only hours is largely due to those muppets that complained that the multitude of signs for a couple of miles on either approach to the tram gate and the decade-old restriction signs were insufficient. But they only made a song and dance about it to the sob-story Star once the enforcement started and they got a fine.

[Planner1 428]

Take a screengrab of this page on the Council's web site before they correct it:

 

"The restrictions

General traffic must observe the signs displayed and not travel through the bus and tram gate between Monday to Saturday 7am-11am; 3pm-7pm. However Sundays are now free from restrictions."

 

On a page about bus gate enforcement, it's reasonable to interpret this as meaning that you can be in the bus lane on a Sunday or outside of the stated hours.

 

Perhaps the council would argue that you can be in the bus lane but cannot turn right. Their PDF shows a 24-hour "no right turn" restriction. However there isn't a "no right turn" restriction on the bus lane (only the left lane). In fact, there is a mandatory right turn!

 

Keep the PCN and write them a letter. Appeal on the grounds that the alleged contravention did not occur because the council's web page says there are no restrictions at that time. They might play brinkmanship and reject, but must then enclose a form for you to appeal to the adjudicator. I doubt the council will want this to be put in front of an adjudicator.

 

If you took the trouble to have a look at the downloadable map on that page, you would note that it's clear that they only classify the restrictions on Langsett Road and Middlewood Road as Tram Gates. Therefore the text you are quoting does not apply to the restriction on Holme Lane.

[garrence 10]

Why would I need to download the map? The web page tells the restrictions.

 

It's what the public understand from reading the page that is important. Not some strange unwritten definition that tells the council that two of the bus restrictions are "bus gates" and two are not!

[V.Rossi 10]

Take a screengrab of this page on the Council's web site before they correct it:

 

"The restrictions

General traffic must observe the signs displayed and not travel through the bus and tram gate between Monday to Saturday 7am-11am; 3pm-7pm. However Sundays are now free from restrictions."

 

On a page about bus gate enforcement, it's reasonable to interpret this as meaning that you can be in the bus lane on a Sunday or outside of the stated hours.

 

Perhaps the council would argue that you can be in the bus lane but cannot turn right. Their PDF shows a 24-hour "no right turn" restriction. However there isn't a "no right turn" restriction on the bus lane (only the left lane). In fact, there is a mandatory right turn!

 

Keep the PCN and write them a letter. Appeal on the grounds that the alleged contravention did not occur because the council's web page says there are no restrictions at that time. They might play brinkmanship and reject, but must then enclose a form for you to appeal to the adjudicator. I doubt the council will want this to be put in front of an adjudicator.

 

I would assume, and I'm no expert, but putting a 'No right turn' sign in the bus lane would prohibit any vehicle from turning right, which would therefore mean that even buses and trams couldn't turn right (That might be a bit of a problem for the trams given that they travel on tracks).

 

There is a 'No right turn' sign on the left hand lane because you just simply aren't allowed to turn right.

 

Given that as I and many others have already stated the sign which clearly states that bus lane is for authorised vehicles only and that you as a non authorised vehicle shouldn't be in that lane, there is clearly no reason for you to be looking at and more to the point, following instructions from that lane.

 

To anyone that holds a valid UK driving license, it's as clear as it gets. I really can't see why anyone is trying to side with the OP?

[garrence 10]

Given that as I and many others have already stated the sign which clearly states that bus lane is for authorised vehicles only and that you as a non authorised vehicle shouldn't be in that lane, there is clearly no reason for you to be looking at and more to the point, following instructions from that lane.

 

To anyone that holds a valid UK driving license, it's as clear as it gets. I really can't see why anyone is trying to side with the OP?

 

Indeed the signs are compliant with requirements (assuming that the DfT has given special approval for the variants of the bus lane signs that are not prescribed by TSRGD).

 

However the OP was relying on the information the council has published on its website.

[NorthernStar 11]

What a complete and utter pigs ear that whole area is, I avoid at all costs.

 

If it creates so much confusion to locals just what must people from out of town visiting must make of it.

[HotPhil 10]

However the OP was relying on the information the council has published on its website.

To me it reads that the OP only checked it after receiving a fine, rather than relying on it.

If it's as reported, the website information isn't incorrect, it just could do with a revision to help make clear the distinction between that junction and any of the "gates" nearby.

[Allen 38]

Jeeez.....hasn't this been discussed before?

 

Anyway..my two penerth.

 

I haven't looked at the website mentioned...and why should I?

 

It's quite clear that the right hand lane is a bus lane just by the road markings.

It's obvious that you are filterd into the left hand lane. Doesn't that in itself tell you something?

 

If it doesn't.......Pay the effin fine and stop moaning!

[cresta 10]

snip

 

In case you missed it, here is an important bit from #22 again.

 

THIS SIGN, and THIS SIGN are clearly noticeable by any driver paying attention (which they should be doing, or else what other signs are they also missing?), whether or not the driver understands what they mean is a another matter. The website is irrelevant when you are in a vehicle driving. Then there are the markings.

 

And in case you also don't understand the highway code, the sign in question is showing you what vehicles are allowed through the bus lane.

 

Furthermore, a bus lane which has no hours of operation on the sign operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

Again, highway code. Read it, Learn it, Love it.

 

The fact that you do not "frequent" the area is not an excuse. If you hold a driving license, you should be able to drive anywhere and be able to understand the signs and roadmarkings. They mean the same EVERYWHERE.

 

You commit the contravention when you ENTER the bus only area. That area is delineated by the thick white lines and the coloured tarmac. It stretches about 80m back from the junction. What good is a sign at the junction if, by the time to get to it, you have already committed the contravention? The designers put signs where they are useful ie in advance of the restriction.

 

Also this

 

Jeeez.....hasn't this been discussed before?

 

Anyway..my two penerth.

 

I haven't looked at the website mentioned...and why should I?

 

It's quite clear that the right hand lane is a bus lane just by the road markings.

It's obvious that you are filterd into the left hand lane. Doesn't that in itself tell you something?

 

If it doesn't.......Pay the effin fine and stop moaning!

 

And this.